Well, I can't say I belittle the work of runners have improved by this tweak of the Norwegian double thresholds . I'm happy for you! 🙏🖐😃🧙♂️ But I'm convinced these guys had very poor training and didn't have a clue how to perfectly train with a mix of VO2max and LT 2 in their weeks before they jumped on the NSM. And the 'Godfather' had already a very high endurance engine from subelite cycling and some critics pointed out that he sometimes ran maxVO2 and LT2 thresholds as well when suposed to run subthresholds.
Some guys before in the thread asked the critics for a better method on low mileage giving faster and sustained improvement and now I have partly given it here with the Dancan System of mine. It's absolutely impossible to reach one's optimum best possible running results without faster training paces than subthresholds 3 times per week. That's a fact, and I can say with 100% sureness for every runner has improved with this NSA method I had improved every one of them atleast as fast in shorter time. Yes, I know , you will downvote me because I say against the majority here, but there are only a few here with my longtime experience of running testing out myself in practise the most famous methods in history as a national elite runner and now last 10 years successful coaching ( really successful even if some stalkers here want to twist that claim) .I'm as I say happy for the guys have improved with the NSM , but you should never believe this is the the very best low mileage method ever....
Coach J.S , Swedish pro online running coach . 🇸🇪🧙♂️🇸🇪
You get a few upvotes, as we know from previous threads you log into multiple accounts. The best, being the one when you forgot and replied to yourself , in the thread you said you were training to win the world masters. At least one of the other critics in the thread is you, the use of ;-) and such is a dead giveaway. It's sad. It's pathetic. It's all a little odd and luckily those who have been here long enough know what a true head case you are.
The reason you will receive down votes is this. You have proven again and again you are a liar, a fraud and almost all the people you say you have coached, have either said they have never heard of you, or the ones that do exist, get worse. They get worse as you are obsessed with short term gains, which makes you a terrible coach. Awful in face. You claimed, at one point to coach a girl who was posting unbelievable workouts, who turned out was a recently graduated male college kid. You then brush off these things and pretend they never happen, or gaslight others into spinning it into your own narrative. Poor Jan.
The other reason you will receive downvotes, is no matter what you say, this thread has proven a fantastic example of community long term feedback, testimonials and thousands (yes really likely that many) of people have reported fantastic progress, on absolutely no vo2 work or any kind of intensity you are obsessed with, whatsoever. You casually just ignore that, and from your multiple accounts make out again from these various logins, that but it's everyone else's fault for not understanding the power of your vo2 workouts and they are magic. Yet you won't share the details of them, conveniently enough or ever actually give us an example of over let's say 6 months, how you would train an athlete.
Those are the facts. If you want to change that narrative, this thread has proven time and time again, absolutely anyone can communicate their ideas and if they work with attached ideas and evidence, anyone can get people to test them. The truth is, your system may as well be a cut and paste from a 90s manual, where you trade off volume, for days off and intensity.
It. Doesn't. Work. No matter how much evidence and real world experience gets out in front of you, the vast majority of folks will be better off and probably improve more just focusing on what this thread has identified as the barrier to the problems hobby joggers encounter. That is not more intensity.
The sheer irony here, is sirpoc himself absolutely promises nobody anything and no miracles, yet you continue to pollute the running community with make belief "magic" fantasy and at times staggering lies that have caught you out time and time again. You are almost certainly a sociopath, possibly worse. Of course you have absolutely no self awareness of this, which is all the classic signs.
I don't log in to multiple accounts as you insinuates. I only have this my The Magic Wizard J.S account.You on the other hand seems to have a lot of different accounts 😉🤔. Everyone here knows you are one of my few longtime stalkers, claims I lie and would be a sociopath, possibly worth as you express it , and so on. Your accusations are absolutely horrible and completely unfounded!
My the Dancan System is far from " a cut and paste from a 90s manual". It's a system of it's own invented by me and my very longtime running experience now 56 years .....
The system is a so called linear system where the 3 main factors for running improvement is ' inbuilt' in the system together with another important ' factor' most runners/ coaches forget about , the very important recovery where the real training effect takes place.
Further the system is built on what I from my longtime experience consider to be the most important parts in five famous coaches systems, Canova , Daniels, Stampfl , Lydiard and Gerschler. Then I have added and mixed in my own specialities like " the rubber band principle " and e.g how I handle the recovery when the runner will do fast repetition sessions when a sprinter or middle distancer..
You have your preconceived claims about me and my training system that are completely unfounded.
have you checked the strava of your godfather? When he runs 10 x 3 mins (1k), there are 3-4 of them being faster than 3:00 pace, and 6-7 of them faster than 3:08 pace, all off 1 min rest. That's definitely higher than 4-6 RPE because he knows it isn't hard enough. Again, he isn't really doing what he preaches. He's a fraud! Sorry, guys, there's no shortcuts or easy way when it comes to running. You have to find the perfect balance between training hard and recovering well which isn't NSA, as it has you train like a pu__y.
You're only wasting your time training this way. Just look at this guy on reddit (can't post link, but keyword is "honest 6 months review of NSA", despite all the "sub-t" running 1 hour every day and losing 20 pounds in the process, he PR-ed by 2 SECONDS in a frigging 10k, lmao
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to save you guys from all the hassle. WAKE UP, SIRPOC IS A FRAUD!
Two things. 1. Have you heard of "the wind". Surely it's pretty obvious if data shows alternate slower and then faster reps?
Secondly, he reckons he's in pre London shape, maybe a fraction better, when he ran a 30:41 10k. That means even at 3:10-11 average for the set, that's on the slower end of the 3 min reps for that kind of shape. I have no doubt if he says he's in that shape, he probably is. According to the data I'm directly quoting, from the last lot of 3 min reps he did with the average pace around 3:11/km , he breached LTHR by one bear for a whole 4 seconds, in the entire 31:45 of the workout. Who is to say that isn't even just a HR spike. Even if it's not. That's 4 seconds in an entire week. That's it.
Don't let the facts get in the way. Also. Btw someone asked you a question about would these guys still be as fast with no easy running, as the intensity of easy you claimed was worthless. It's a few pages back. Don't think you can not be pulled up at this point on the absolute drivel you are posting. So, I can't wait for your answer on that.
I don't know if you have done these workouts, but if you are running 30 mins of reps at 4:15 pace (even the fastest end of your example) in 3 min chunks as a 20 min 5k runner and your RPE is 8 or even 9 as you suggest, something is drastically wrong. Like really wrong.
have you checked the strava of your godfather? When he runs 10 x 3 mins (1k), there are 3-4 of them being faster than 3:00 pace, and 6-7 of them faster than 3:08 pace, all off 1 min rest. That's definitely higher than 4-6 RPE because he knows it isn't hard enough. Again, he isn't really doing what he preaches. He's a fraud! Sorry, guys, there's no shortcuts or easy way when it comes to running. You have to find the perfect balance between training hard and recovering well which isn't NSA, as it has you train like a pu__y.
You're only wasting your time training this way. Just look at this guy on reddit (can't post link, but keyword is "honest 6 months review of NSA", despite all the "sub-t" running 1 hour every day and losing 20 pounds in the process, he PR-ed by 2 SECONDS in a frigging 10k, lmao
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to save you guys from all the hassle. WAKE UP, SIRPOC IS A FRAUD!
Another giveaway is that for the last 3 reps of the 10 x 1k, he would reach mid to high 170s HR, and his max HR in an all-out 5k with a kick was 187. So that's essentially around 90% of his MHR for the last few reps. No way that's 4-6 of RPE, not a chance. More like 7-8. 4-6 is only for the warm-up reps. Again, if you analyze his Strava, he isn't training as easy as he preaches in his book. It's actually pretty standard in terms of effort. The only difference is he doesn't do "killer workouts"/periodization which are not necessarily a bad thing but what he's been doing is definitely not sub-t and he's still training pretty hard (and more frequently with 3 workouts a week).
hat he has been doing isn't new just like Magness said, it's basically Daniels cruise intervals (instead of doing tempo or race pace/vo2max intervals), three times per week but he just dressed it up as sub t and pretends he cracked the code in training. "just do sub-t, and you will keep improving without burn-out!" He's right, if you only do sub-t, you won't get burned out, because you're training like a wuss but what he doesn't tell you is that then your ceiling would be pretty low because you're too afraid to overtrain.
I will say it again, Sirpoc is a fraud, he doesn't really train the way he preaches!
have you checked the strava of your godfather? When he runs 10 x 3 mins (1k), there are 3-4 of them being faster than 3:00 pace, and 6-7 of them faster than 3:08 pace, all off 1 min rest. That's definitely higher than 4-6 RPE because he knows it isn't hard enough. Again, he isn't really doing what he preaches. He's a fraud! Sorry, guys, there's no shortcuts or easy way when it comes to running. You have to find the perfect balance between training hard and recovering well which isn't NSA, as it has you train like a pu__y.
You're only wasting your time training this way. Just look at this guy on reddit (can't post link, but keyword is "honest 6 months review of NSA", despite all the "sub-t" running 1 hour every day and losing 20 pounds in the process, he PR-ed by 2 SECONDS in a frigging 10k, lmao
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to save you guys from all the hassle. WAKE UP, SIRPOC IS A FRAUD!
Very fast runner in shape of his life, does a workout that's pretty stsndard for him, fits in with his own pace guidelines that he set years ago, random dude on internet gets mad. You can tell it's Letsrun lol
Hate to break to you my man, but a guy who if he hops into the right race could probably run 14:45 right now, running 3:09 even for 3 mins reps, isn't exactly putting on the after burners. I doubt lactate is more than 2.5, 3 mmol max for such short reps.
You clearly have no idea how you can manipulate pace and time, to create different intensities.
have you checked the strava of your godfather? When he runs 10 x 3 mins (1k), there are 3-4 of them being faster than 3:00 pace, and 6-7 of them faster than 3:08 pace, all off 1 min rest. That's definitely higher than 4-6 RPE because he knows it isn't hard enough. Again, he isn't really doing what he preaches. He's a fraud! Sorry, guys, there's no shortcuts or easy way when it comes to running. You have to find the perfect balance between training hard and recovering well which isn't NSA, as it has you train like a pu__y.
You're only wasting your time training this way. Just look at this guy on reddit (can't post link, but keyword is "honest 6 months review of NSA", despite all the "sub-t" running 1 hour every day and losing 20 pounds in the process, he PR-ed by 2 SECONDS in a frigging 10k, lmao
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to save you guys from all the hassle. WAKE UP, SIRPOC IS A FRAUD!
Two things. 1. Have you heard of "the wind". Surely it's pretty obvious if data shows alternate slower and then faster reps?
Secondly, he reckons he's in pre London shape, maybe a fraction better, when he ran a 30:41 10k. That means even at 3:10-11 average for the set, that's on the slower end of the 3 min reps for that kind of shape. I have no doubt if he says he's in that shape, he probably is. According to the data I'm directly quoting, from the last lot of 3 min reps he did with the average pace around 3:11/km , he breached LTHR by one bear for a whole 4 seconds, in the entire 31:45 of the workout. Who is to say that isn't even just a HR spike. Even if it's not. That's 4 seconds in an entire week. That's it.
Don't let the facts get in the way. Also. Btw someone asked you a question about would these guys still be as fast with no easy running, as the intensity of easy you claimed was worthless. It's a few pages back. Don't think you can not be pulled up at this point on the absolute drivel you are posting. So, I can't wait for your answer on that.
you realize ,of course, if you plug in his 30:41 into VDOT calculator, it's still faster than his T pace (which is 3:12 per k pace), and he's not doing it on track either, and there's headwind, which meant that's significantly faster than T pace effort. Again, far from being a sub-t. And his HR also shot up to 174-177 (90%+ MHR) for last 3 reps, how was that RPE of 4-6. lol
But lets not facts get in the way of a cult meeting!
Two things. 1. Have you heard of "the wind". Surely it's pretty obvious if data shows alternate slower and then faster reps?
Secondly, he reckons he's in pre London shape, maybe a fraction better, when he ran a 30:41 10k. That means even at 3:10-11 average for the set, that's on the slower end of the 3 min reps for that kind of shape. I have no doubt if he says he's in that shape, he probably is. According to the data I'm directly quoting, from the last lot of 3 min reps he did with the average pace around 3:11/km , he breached LTHR by one bear for a whole 4 seconds, in the entire 31:45 of the workout. Who is to say that isn't even just a HR spike. Even if it's not. That's 4 seconds in an entire week. That's it.
Don't let the facts get in the way. Also. Btw someone asked you a question about would these guys still be as fast with no easy running, as the intensity of easy you claimed was worthless. It's a few pages back. Don't think you can not be pulled up at this point on the absolute drivel you are posting. So, I can't wait for your answer on that.
you realize ,of course, if you plug in his 30:41 into VDOT calculator, it's still faster than his T pace (which is 3:12 per k pace), and he's not doing it on track either, and there's headwind, which meant that's significantly faster than T pace effort. Again, far from being a sub-t. And his HR also shot up to 174-177 (90%+ MHR) for last 3 reps, how was that RPE of 4-6. lol
But lets not facts get in the way of a cult meeting!
Ahaha! You are great man!! You just put the nail on the NSM bubble and it burst ! ))
Some of you have a very odd RPE scale. On a typical scale, 4 is comfortable pace with some effort, the first pace above "conversational". The 6-7 border is usually considered LT2. 8 is 5K race pace. 10 is an all-out sprint.
By this scale, you can't be above 6 on sub-threshold workouts without cooking yourself over the medium-term. 4-6 is right on, though I'd argue you probably should be closer to the high end of that than the low end.
you realize ,of course, if you plug in his 30:41 into VDOT calculator, it's still faster than his T pace (which is 3:12 per k pace), and he's not doing it on track either, and there's headwind, which meant that's significantly faster than T pace effort. Again, far from being a sub-t. And his HR also shot up to 174-177 (90%+ MHR) for last 3 reps, how was that RPE of 4-6. lol
But lets not facts get in the way of a cult meeting!
What do you mean threshold pace? Like Daniels threshold pace? I can't tell if you are trolling?
From day 1, it's been clear the 3 min reps are faster than "threshold pace" and also there isn't really anything called threshold pace that exists. But the short reps basically safeguard you from breaching LTHR for almost the entire workout and that lactate never gets too crazy. Wait until you find out about Bakken's 45/15 threshold workout, you are gonna be really mad.
We literally know his max HR is 193 (probably more as he said he never tested, but he saw this in a race this year) and that his LTHR is 178-79. His average HR for the entire session is like 150. It's very unlikely thanlt hour is gonna feel more than 5-6/10 with all the jogging and rests. Especially when he's run a half marathon at like an average of 175+ for just over an hour which I assume is actually like 9-10/10 RPE.
I'm not sure you know how all this works my man. Like, at all.
have you checked the strava of your godfather? When he runs 10 x 3 mins (1k), there are 3-4 of them being faster than 3:00 pace, and 6-7 of them faster than 3:08 pace, all off 1 min rest. That's definitely higher than 4-6 RPE because he knows it isn't hard enough. Again, he isn't really doing what he preaches. He's a fraud! Sorry, guys, there's no shortcuts or easy way when it comes to running. You have to find the perfect balance between training hard and recovering well which isn't NSA, as it has you train like a pu__y.
You're only wasting your time training this way. Just look at this guy on reddit (can't post link, but keyword is "honest 6 months review of NSA", despite all the "sub-t" running 1 hour every day and losing 20 pounds in the process, he PR-ed by 2 SECONDS in a frigging 10k, lmao
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to save you guys from all the hassle. WAKE UP, SIRPOC IS A FRAUD!
Another giveaway is that for the last 3 reps of the 10 x 1k, he would reach mid to high 170s HR, and his max HR in an all-out 5k with a kick was 187. So that's essentially around 90% of his MHR for the last few reps. No way that's 4-6 of RPE, not a chance. More like 7-8. 4-6 is only for the warm-up reps. Again, if you analyze his Strava, he isn't training as easy as he preaches in his book. It's actually pretty standard in terms of effort. The only difference is he doesn't do "killer workouts"/periodization which are not necessarily a bad thing but what he's been doing is definitely not sub-t and he's still training pretty hard (and more frequently with 3 workouts a week).
hat he has been doing isn't new just like Magness said, it's basically Daniels cruise intervals (instead of doing tempo or race pace/vo2max intervals), three times per week but he just dressed it up as sub t and pretends he cracked the code in training. "just do sub-t, and you will keep improving without burn-out!" He's right, if you only do sub-t, you won't get burned out, because you're training like a wuss but what he doesn't tell you is that then your ceiling would be pretty low because you're too afraid to overtrain.
I will say it again, Sirpoc is a fraud, he doesn't really train the way he preaches!
I was wondering why the ratio of buffoons to useful posters seems to have worsened in this thread lately. Maybe since the book the sensible people are out running, there being not much more to say. While the trolls are here obsessing over the last two reps of a 1km session, looking for a evidence of conspiracy to defraud the running public. Typical Letsrun I guess.
How come you and Jan have been pooping up the last few days at the same time in the thread? A little suspicious Jan is often replying to himself. Jan also seems to be in panic mode that he has realised this thread is a threat to what failing coaching career he has left.
have you checked the strava of your godfather? When he runs 10 x 3 mins (1k), there are 3-4 of them being faster than 3:00 pace, and 6-7 of them faster than 3:08 pace, all off 1 min rest. That's definitely higher than 4-6 RPE because he knows it isn't hard enough. Again, he isn't really doing what he preaches. He's a fraud! Sorry, guys, there's no shortcuts or easy way when it comes to running. You have to find the perfect balance between training hard and recovering well which isn't NSA, as it has you train like a pu__y.
You're only wasting your time training this way. Just look at this guy on reddit (can't post link, but keyword is "honest 6 months review of NSA", despite all the "sub-t" running 1 hour every day and losing 20 pounds in the process, he PR-ed by 2 SECONDS in a frigging 10k, lmao
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to save you guys from all the hassle. WAKE UP, SIRPOC IS A FRAUD!
Very fast runner in shape of his life, does a workout that's pretty stsndard for him, fits in with his own pace guidelines that he set years ago, random dude on internet gets mad. You can tell it's Letsrun lol
Hate to break to you my man, but a guy who if he hops into the right race could probably run 14:45 right now, running 3:09 even for 3 mins reps, isn't exactly putting on the after burners. I doubt lactate is more than 2.5, 3 mmol max for such short reps.
You clearly have no idea how you can manipulate pace and time, to create different intensities.
Are you trying to kidding us? This can' t be explained away even if you tried a bad attempt.😉 If in 14:45 shape at 5 k 3:09 pace at 1000m is even faster than LT2 pace and definitely not subthreshold pace!!
have you checked the strava of your godfather? When he runs 10 x 3 mins (1k), there are 3-4 of them being faster than 3:00 pace, and 6-7 of them faster than 3:08 pace, all off 1 min rest. That's definitely higher than 4-6 RPE because he knows it isn't hard enough. Again, he isn't really doing what he preaches. He's a fraud! Sorry, guys, there's no shortcuts or easy way when it comes to running. You have to find the perfect balance between training hard and recovering well which isn't NSA, as it has you train like a pu__y.
You're only wasting your time training this way. Just look at this guy on reddit (can't post link, but keyword is "honest 6 months review of NSA", despite all the "sub-t" running 1 hour every day and losing 20 pounds in the process, he PR-ed by 2 SECONDS in a frigging 10k, lmao
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to save you guys from all the hassle. WAKE UP, SIRPOC IS A FRAUD!
Your use of capitals at the end has totally convinced me. Well done. Have a biscuit! Of course the hundreds of testimonials are frauds. Wigglewaffle is secretly doing speedwork and cheetodust doesn't exist. Sorry just giving you material for your future posts.
Are you trying to kidding us? This can' t be explained away even if you tried a bad attempt.😉 If in 14:45 shape at 5 k 3:09 pace at 1000m is even faster than LT2 pace and definitely not subthreshold pace!!
As someone pointed out, what do you mean LT2 pace? Are you serious? Do you think if you run Daniel's classic threshold pace for 3 minutes and then have a minute rest, your lactate rises about above your actual second lactate turn point phisiological marker is? You can do 400m/70-85 second repeats at 10k pace and it still be a sub threshold workout. Jan, you are actually embarrassing yourself.
Some of you have a very odd RPE scale. On a typical scale, 4 is comfortable pace with some effort, the first pace above "conversational". The 6-7 border is usually considered LT2. 8 is 5K race pace. 10 is an all-out sprint.
By this scale, you can't be above 6 on sub-threshold workouts without cooking yourself over the medium-term. 4-6 is right on, though I'd argue you probably should be closer to the high end of that than the low end.
Didn't you hear? Sirpoc did 3 workouts a week, for 120 weeks at 8-9 RPE. It don't cook you bro. It's fine.
Very fast runner in shape of his life, does a workout that's pretty stsndard for him, fits in with his own pace guidelines that he set years ago, random dude on internet gets mad. You can tell it's Letsrun lol
Hate to break to you my man, but a guy who if he hops into the right race could probably run 14:45 right now, running 3:09 even for 3 mins reps, isn't exactly putting on the after burners. I doubt lactate is more than 2.5, 3 mmol max for such short reps.
You clearly have no idea how you can manipulate pace and time, to create different intensities.
Are you trying to kidding us? This can' t be explained away even if you tried a bad attempt.😉 If in 14:45 shape at 5 k 3:09 pace at 1000m is even faster than LT2 pace and definitely not subthreshold pace!!
Usain Bolt's lactate must have been in the hundreds of mmol after his 9.58 100m
you realize ,of course, if you plug in his 30:41 into VDOT calculator, it's still faster than his T pace (which is 3:12 per k pace), and he's not doing it on track either, and there's headwind, which meant that's significantly faster than T pace effort. Again, far from being a sub-t. And his HR also shot up to 174-177 (90%+ MHR) for last 3 reps, how was that RPE of 4-6. lol
But lets not facts get in the way of a cult meeting!
What do you mean threshold pace? Like Daniels threshold pace? I can't tell if you are trolling?
From day 1, it's been clear the 3 min reps are faster than "threshold pace" and also there isn't really anything called threshold pace that exists. But the short reps basically safeguard you from breaching LTHR for almost the entire workout and that lactate never gets too crazy. Wait until you find out about Bakken's 45/15 threshold workout, you are gonna be really mad.
We literally know his max HR is 193 (probably more as he said he never tested, but he saw this in a race this year) and that his LTHR is 178-79. His average HR for the entire session is like 150. It's very unlikely thanlt hour is gonna feel more than 5-6/10 with all the jogging and rests. Especially when he's run a half marathon at like an average of 175+ for just over an hour which I assume is actually like 9-10/10 RPE.
I'm not sure you know how all this works my man. Like, at all.
Ahaha! You don't know what you are talking about! It's a very clear proved fact now this we now discuss is NOT subthreshold pace! ....and even faster than Sirpoc's LT2 pace.
Are you trying to kidding us? This can' t be explained away even if you tried a bad attempt.😉 If in 14:45 shape at 5 k 3:09 pace at 1000m is even faster than LT2 pace and definitely not subthreshold pace!!
I would honestly stop posting. You clearly think there is a an actual sub-threshold pace. You are even more stupid than I realised. Maybe this explains why you are such an awful coach.
Are you trying to kidding us? This can' t be explained away even if you tried a bad attempt.😉 If in 14:45 shape at 5 k 3:09 pace at 1000m is even faster than LT2 pace and definitely not subthreshold pace!!
Not tying to bash you Jan, but a little confused, what do you mean by Subthreshold pace? Because the whole idea here, is that sub threshold is a state and you are basically controlling time v intensity to not breach LT2, MLSS or whatever you want to call it.
Are you suggesting there is a magic Subthreshold pace itself? Because this would be a new discovery. Surely you need to know how long you are running for? Someone already mentioned Bakken, but he has done some really short, but significantly fast stuff and it still been subthreshold.