Deanouk wrote:
Michael Laudrup wrote:
Did you know Vainio tested positive for Metenolone at LA consequently having his silver in the 10k disqualified? The story on this is too funny - he thought he was supposed to be administered T injections (non-detectable) but instead was given a long glow time anabolic steroid. Lol. And what's this funny business of the FAA running their own control tests on their distance runners to help them avoid getting pinged at international competitions? FFS, that sounds like something the Soviet block nations were doing (see below). So, here's some evidence that some (certainly not all) top level distance runners were using androgens.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martti_VainioDoping case at the Olympics 1984
"In 1984, Vainio started his season by finishing third at the Rotterdam Marathon with a personal record of 2:13:04. After the race he gave a doping sample in the test organized by the Finnish Athletics Association. The test did not have official status and was merely considered to be a control test to help avoid Finnish athletes getting caught at the tests performed in international championships. Therefore, only the so-called A-sample was taken and not the B-sample, which is used to ensure the test result after a positive A-sample. However, Vainio's A-sample was tested positive foranabolic steroids, and the head coach of the Finnish Athletics Federation, Antti Lanamäki, delegated Timo Vuorimaa, the head coach of long-distance runners, to inform Vainio about the test result. Vuorimaa informed Vainio only by mentioning that there was something strange in his test sample, not providing detailed information about the substance. Vainio believed that he had only been using testosterone and not anabolic steroids at all. Therefore, his only action was to give up drug use a little bit earlier prior to the anticipated tests.[2]"
"Vainio's track season was really strong. In June 1984, he competed five times in 5000 metres, the weakest result being 13:30.40, and once in 10,000 metres with his all-time second best result 27:41.75. At the Bislett Games on 28 June, he broke Lasse Virén's Finnish record in 5000 metres and finished second after Fernando Mamede[3] with the result 13:16.02. In July, he competed only three times; first two times in the Finnish Championships on July 6–8 in Kajaani, where he took the gold medals after solo runs in both 5000 metres (13:24.99) and 10,000 metres (28:06.85), and the third time when improving his 3000 metres record to 7:44.42 in Varkaus on 12 July. According to a Vainio interview in 2004, he took his next injection after the Rotterdam Marathonaround 10 July, and was sure that this time period would be long enough to allowmetabolism to take its effect and ensure a negative test at the Olympics.[2]"
"10,000 metres final was run on 6 August. Vainio took the lead after 5700 metres and only Alberto Cova was able to follow him. When the final lap started, these two runners were well over 100 metres ahead of the other runners. This time, hovewer, Vainio was not able to challenge Cova, who took the gold with the time 27:47.54. Vainio won silver with the time 27:51.10. Far behind, Mike McLeod was third at the finish line with the time 28:06.22. Vainio also qualified for the 5000 metres final, but was not permitted to start after his doping sample following the 10,000 metres final tested positive for Metenolone."
There weren't dozens of cases of women distance runners testing positive for androgens (maybe a half dozen or so - mostly Soviet block nations - that I found on Wikipedia's list of doping cases for athletics). Lots of throwers & sprinters testing positive though - probably, IMO, higher dosages being used too close to competition. Distance runners wouldn't need high dosages - too much bulk and weight gain. Lower dosages for improved recovery from hard workouts, some added leg strength & improved healing time from injuries is probably the objective. And what about undetectable T? (that Vainio was supposed to be using). I wonder how many distance runners from that era supplemented their hard training with "little T" for better recovery and any injury rehab, if applicable. We will never know since it was undetectable back then.
Also, 02-vector doping would have benefited the 800 as the aerobic energy system is pretty high for that discipline (~66%.).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11194103Mike McLeod the true winner of the 1984 OG 10000m?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KzATcsqsAM&t=10s
Yes, I remember the 'stupidity' of Vainio well.
But the unfortunate events and story of how he was caught, only reinforces the evidence we have that points to long distance athletes from 2 specific countries, Italy & Finland, as being known dopers. Even then, it doesn't mean all distance athletes from those countries doped, but it is natural to suspect this group as being more likely to have; just as there is a heightened suspicion of Kenyan middle and distance athletes at present, down to dozens of positive test results in the last 3 years.
Also, while the current thinking is that 800m running is more aerobic (66%, you claim), this has changed quite considerably since the 80's understanding of the systems' breakdown. I have read accounts suggesting the ratio is 50%/50%, and in one training manual I have from 1985, written by Ron Hill and Harry Wilson (Steve Ovett's coach), they suggest the balance is 67% anaerobic to 33% aerobic! So this would seem to suggest that the philosophy of the time was that 800m running was more anaerobic, regardless if this is what now is the case?[/quote]C'mon man...didn't you read the info on Vainio's doping case from his own Wikipedia page under "Doping case at the Olympics 1984?" Here's an important part of it:
"In 1984, Vainio started his season by finishing third at the Rotterdam Marathon with a personal record of 2:13:04. After the race he gave a doping sample in the test organized by the Finnish Athletics Association. The test did not have official status and was merely considered to be a control test to help avoid Finnish athletes getting caught at the tests performed in international championships.
The FAA doing their own "control tests to help avoid Finnish athletes getting caught at the tests performed in international championships." Sounds more like a State-sponsored program to make sure all of their athletes aren't glowing from steroids at international competitions. Lol.
On the energy system of the 800m: As I linked; Duffield et al has ~66% aerobic (2001 study). Another study done by Spencer et al in 2005 has ~60% aerobic - no way near the 67% anaerobic/33% aerobic suggested by Ovett's coaches.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15966348"For the 800-m event, an increased aerobic involvement was noted with a 60/40% (male) and 70/30% (female) respective contribution."