Rocheaters course looks to be short or faster than Paul short. Its impossible to have every single person run phenomenal on one day from multiple teams.
Rocheaters course looks to be short or faster than Paul short. Its impossible to have every single person run phenomenal on one day from multiple teams.
this thread is f*cking retarded.
1) Cortland 2-3-4-6-9-(10-11) --24
2) Geneseo 5-8-12-14-15-(17-20) --54
3) Plattsburg 1-13-16- --99
4) Fredonia 7-18 --123
5) Oneonta ? --158
top 5 sunyacs wrote:
1) Cortland 2-3-4-6-9-(10-11) --24
2) Geneseo 5-8-12-14-15-(17-20) --54
3) Plattsburg 1-13-16- --99
4) Fredonia 7-18 --123
5) Oneonta ? --158
Agree with your top 4, but i think brockport will get the 5th spot. Fredonia has to get there 5 going on the same day.
Honeywell wrote:
Rocheaters course looks to be short or faster than Paul short. Its impossible to have every single person run phenomenal on one day from multiple teams.
Does this also explain why Chichester beat De Silva from Cornell, who beat every Cortland runner at Paul Short?
I don't know what course they run at Albany these days, but back in 05 the course they ran was definitely around 200-300 meters short, and then they changed it the next year and I think it was probably legit. Either way the courses they run there are quite fast. There are a couple decent little climbs but also a fair amount of pavement if I remember correctly.
The Rochester course it also very flat, and in good conditions I can see it being very fast. The only time I was there it was wet and sloppy and thus pretty slow since it's all on grass.
All in all, I'd say that Cortland's times at Paul Short are more impressive than Geneseo's at Rochester. If Geneseo runs well (they are definitely the less consistent team) then they could make SUNYACs and regionals very close races.
RIT is making a pretty solid bid to bridge the gap to SLU and NYU.
How do you think that cortland will put 3 ahead of berube and 4 ahead of chichester?
Plattsburgh definitely had an off day, and RIT was obviously on.
I know that people always say not to look at history, to predict the future, but besides from '06, RIT might be in trouble for regionals.
fkmdgs;odjg wrote:
Honeywell wrote:Rocheaters course looks to be short or faster than Paul short. Its impossible to have every single person run phenomenal on one day from multiple teams.
Does this also explain why Chichester beat De Silva from Cornell, who beat every Cortland runner at Paul Short?
You could look at it that way, or you could see that he ran way slower than Paul Short with a teammate who wasn't in their top 7 there and infer that maybe he was pacing said teammate (Loy) and using it as a workout.
If you really want to compare results in stupid ways, we can also look at Lockhaven where Edelman of Cornell ran 25:06 after his 23:42 Paul Short run. Compared to that, Cortland guys ran
4 Seth Dubois, Sr 25:15 5:06
5 Sean Curry, Fr 25:27 5:08
15 Kyle O'Brien, Sr 25:47 5:12
20 Jerry Greenlaw, Sr 25:52 5:13
26 Eric Stermer, Sr 25:58 5:15
29 Justin Wager, Sr 26:04 5:16
so using the same idiotic logic you could say that since all of them were within a minute of his Lockhaven time, they are all within a minute of his Paul Short time, therefore, Cortland has 6 runners at 24:42 or faster......
Do you really want to get into a stupid logic battle? Outliers happen, people have off days, people have workout days at races, point being, comparing who beat who beat who from race to race is just as stupid as claiming that times can be related from one course to another.
In the past 3 years, Cortland has been the better program, and considering this is for the most part the same team of those past 3 years, its cortlands race to lose come sunyacs.
33 27 Pete Loy, Sr 5:03 25:47 5:12 Cornell
2 full minutes behind De Silva @ PS but he was with him @ rochester. Definitely a workout for De Silva
Albany's courses are always a bit short, and they change every year with construction on campus. As for RIT closing the gap on NYU and SLU, NYU just beat the 5th ranked team in DIII. I am sure some idiot coaches will still vote them 4th in the region.
Big Will wrote:
I don't know what course they run at Albany these days, but back in 05 the course they ran was definitely around 200-300 meters short, and then they changed it the next year and I think it was probably legit. Either way the courses they run there are quite fast. There are a couple decent little climbs but also a fair amount of pavement if I remember correctly.
The Rochester course it also very flat, and in good conditions I can see it being very fast. The only time I was there it was wet and sloppy and thus pretty slow since it's all on grass.
All in all, I'd say that Cortland's times at Paul Short are more impressive than Geneseo's at Rochester. If Geneseo runs well (they are definitely the less consistent team) then they could make SUNYACs and regionals very close races.
RIT is making a pretty solid bid to bridge the gap to SLU and NYU.
lookalittlefurther wrote:
You could look at it that way, or you could see that he ran way slower than Paul Short with a teammate who wasn't in their top 7 there and infer that maybe he was pacing said teammate (Loy) and using it as a workout.
If you really want to compare results in stupid ways, we can also look at Lockhaven where Edelman of Cornell ran 25:06 after his 23:42 Paul Short run. Compared to that, Cortland guys ran
4 Seth Dubois, Sr 25:15 5:06
5 Sean Curry, Fr 25:27 5:08
15 Kyle O'Brien, Sr 25:47 5:12
20 Jerry Greenlaw, Sr 25:52 5:13
26 Eric Stermer, Sr 25:58 5:15
29 Justin Wager, Sr 26:04 5:16
so using the same idiotic logic you could say that since all of them were within a minute of his Lockhaven time, they are all within a minute of his Paul Short time, therefore, Cortland has 6 runners at 24:42 or faster......
Do you really want to get into a stupid logic battle? Outliers happen, people have off days, people have workout days at races, point being, comparing who beat who beat who from race to race is just as stupid as claiming that times can be related from one course to another.
In the past 3 years, Cortland has been the better program, and considering this is for the most part the same team of those past 3 years, its cortlands race to lose come sunyacs.
calm down
SLU is overrated and always will be. Wanna prove me wrong, go ahead and try.
well boy howdy geneseo looks solid and everything i thought i knew about nyu this season just went out the window. #whatever beat #5 allegheny wow wow woowow.
SUNY G
SUNY C
NYU
SLU
who knows
Based on what we've seen so far this year, what we know about all the courses and weather, and what has historically happened in the past 3 or 4 years as each season has progressed, my prediction is:
Cortland
NYU
Geneseo
SLU
RIT
Platts
Personally, I think Cortland is still neck and neck with North Central for best team in the country. NCC just ran similar times at Oshkosh to what they ran last year, and Cortland ran similar times at Paul Short. Of course we know how things turned out last year. The difference between the teams this year is that NCC has raced their top 5 all-out much more than Cortland has. Considering how the top D1 teams race their top guys, this doesn't bode well for NCC's success at nationals. That being said, I think the scores will be closer between the 2 teams this year.
Honeywell wrote:
Rocheaters course looks to be short or faster than Paul short. Its impossible to have every single person run phenomenal on one day from multiple teams.
Rochester's course was the same that it is every year, EXCEPT, the leader came around the wrong tree on the final straight, and the whole race followed. We took a good look at the difference and concluded about 30 meters was cut from the course, so maybe add 5 seconds, 10 if you want to be extremely conservative, to the times.
It was great racing conditions, and Geneseo, Cornell B, Western Ontario, and yes, even Rochester, have good teams and fast guys, I wouldn't discount any of the performances turned in.
Who cares! wrote:
SLU is overrated and always will be. Wanna prove me wrong, go ahead and try.
2008 nationals ranked 19th in the final rankings placed 17th in the race. That was easy.
Based purely off of Plattsburgh's race and RIT's past races, I would say that the course at Albany was faster than that at Lehigh.
alex sico had a bad race at albany. Heymann ran to win (and as such his time was 24:32, only 20 seconds slower than the fast course at lehigh) Grim improved by 15 seconds (an outlier among the pack that suggests that he either had a good day or everyone else just ran poorly.)
RIT had an on day. Their pack was spread out more than it has at any point in this season. Their individual performances were better than how they ran at Houghton. It seems odd that they would run fast one week, slow the next(on average 30 seconds slower at Geneseo) and then run faster than they had ever before at Albany two weeks later. Heck, even nick lowe got under 26.
In this entry I outlined how I believe that Plattsburgh had a seriously off race, and Heymann ran to win.
I also outlined a situation which suggests that the times run at Albany are probably not indicitive of the actual capabilities of the RIT team.
What happened at Albany is what everyone expected to happen. (as per weekly rankings) It changes nothing.
Just face it plattsburgh is way overrated as of right now.
based on how badly rit beat them, they would have been beat at geneseo invite by rochester maybe even fredonia (based on how they ran this weekend without their top runner, they should probaly be ranked at least 8th, probably 7th like they were earlier).
Albany's course is a very fast course. Much faster than oberlin(which was wet and soggy and muddy) or Genesee Valley park.
I give rochester the nod over Plattsburgh and fredonia is tied with them and of course RIT over all of them.
This is the classic argument about the polls: do you want to rank who is the best right now, or are you using the current races to gauge where you think the teams will finish at Regionals? Right now, I can absolutely see why you'd put RIT ahead of SUNY P. However I don't think Plattsburgh is overrated, and I do think they'll be the 5th team at Regionals.
As for Albany - I raced it 4 years straight, and every year it was a different course. Most of the time it was short; sometimes up to 30 seconds or so. I'm not sure you can really take any of the times seriously. Albert Sico had a very bad day, but he'll bounce back.
That said, I am still very impressed with RIT, and they have far surpassed my expectations of them for the season. Cortland is running better than I expected as well; Curry has really come on and Jerry is not waiting around like last year. I wish NYU would race some upstate teams so we could see how they stack up directly. Haven't heard much from the SLU camp lately, but Plattsburgh was pretty close to them at Paul Short...
Regional Predictions:
1) Cortland - so strong up front
2) NYU - Oberlin has to mean something
3) Geneseo - really deep, needs Chi to run like Reg 2008
4) SLU - closer to 5th than 3rd right now
5) Plattsburgh - they did it last year, believe in JL
6) RIT - they will be close, but Heymann's single-digit in a big race makes the difference
7) UR - haven't seen them race in person
8) Fredonia - ahead of TCNJ is Williams gets back
9) TCNJ - rebuilding year for sure
10) Hamilton - 'Jenny Barringer effect'