From Reuters in 2021. Probably a Leftist Commie News Organization in your mind !
Dec 3 (Reuters) - The Gateway Pundit, a far-right news site, has used its Facebook page - with more than 630,000 followers - to post bogus stories alleging the 2020 election was stolen from former President Donald Trump.
The right has been the driving force behind the decline in blue collar wages. Deregulation and the offshoring of jobs is a page from the GOP playbook.
Conservative leaders are good at pointing fingers and placing blame elsewhere. The modern conservative is good at being told what to think.
The GOP perspective at the upper echelons is that deregulation and offshoring are necessary for US companies to compete in a global market and thus for American society as a whole which isn't obviously wrong. It's pretty much the neo-liberal view as well.
What Trump/the GOP/Fox have managed much better than the democrats recently is making blue collar workers feel heard regardless of whether they've done anything substantial to help them. The "culture wars" give many of these people a perceived win while not really being of benefit. In a hierarchical worldview, bringing down one's perceived enemies still can maintain one's position on the status hierarchy even if everybody is sinking.
West Virginia was the bluest state in the country not too long ago. Now it's one of the reddest. If you want a real look at how the Democrats treat blue collar workers look at West Virginia.
While you clearly reject the idea that he's a potential criminal, do you not think that what this latest indictment has revealed indicates that Trump is unfit for high office, let alone one with as much attendant power as the US Presidency?
Think about it: If he knew the election had not been stolen and acted to undermine the peaceful transfer of power anyway, then he is a clear and present danger to the rule of law in the most fundamental sense. If he somehow believed that election had been stolen (as per his legal defense), in spite of all evidence and expert counsel to the contrary, does this not indicate that he is dangerously delusional, and thus unfit for high office?
Note: This is a question for people whose rational faculties are still intact Please don't bother responding if you're crazy enough to think the election actually was stolen. Not even Trump's legal defense is sticking with that insane line.
P.S. My own view is that a non-trivial number of diehard Trump supporters (maybe even close to a majority) believe that he knowingly tried to prevent the legitimate and peaceful transfer of power with the aim of remaining in office unconstitutionally, and that he was right to do so even if Biden won the election. American fascism today is founded on the belief that extreme defensive measures are required to prevent what amounts to a "lib/woke/communist" destruction of American society and culture (they believe it has already subverted the political order beyond reform). The increasingly mainstream American far right sees erstwhile partisan political struggle as having morphed into total war in which the majority of the country's major institutions are arrayed against it, the "real America", and are prepared to use every means available, legal and otherwise, to maintain a decadent and corrupt liberal order. It (the far right) sees establishment attempts to stop Trump as clear evidence of this intent. In attempting to stop Biden's ascension to the Presidency, many see Trump as having merely played by rules established long ago by corrupt liberals and their "deep state". In which case, he's only called out liberal establishment hypocrisy. There are no crimes when your enemy is criminal.
That was a very insightful post. You presented the conundrum of the Trump supporter either thinking Trump knew that he lost fairly but tried to undermine the peaceful transfer of power of anyway or he didn't know and is just a delusional idiot and in either case should not be president. (If the Trump supporter is also a delusional idiot and believes Trump won, than there is no conundrum for them here). You also made a good point about why Trump supporters are okay with Trump's criminal behavior. You stated, ".....belief that extreme defensive measures are required to prevent what amounts to a "lib/woke/communist" destruction of American society and culture..."
I believe what has happened in this country is really a tragedy. Trump is a brilliant conman. Keep in mind that a very financially effective conman is one who can con 5% of his attempted marks. Trump has conned the majority of Republicans and about 35-40%% of the population. Now maybe the Republican party was fertile ground for a conman like Trump to step in and take over and maybe even the party was not only looking for a Trump but actually reinforced the development of his extreme con because they wanted it. Nevertheless Trump is a brilliantly clever conman.
There a certain strategies he employs that make him so effective (and destructive). He is able to make his followers feel like they are in a special club with him and he speaks to them how you might speak to a close friend privately, honestly and at times inappropriately. He develops personal relationships with those who work for him (gets their loyalty) but he shows severe anger at those who cross him keeping loyalty out of fear. He knows that a lie repeated numerously becomes viewed as the truth. He knows how to demonize groups to his advantage. He has charisma and humor which engages groups and disarms rivals. He has a ton of energy. He tells people what they want to hear and he can speak lies with a very high degree of believability. He has a way of thinking of always externalizing blame and this comes fluently and natural to him. He knows how to brand and he knows how to sell.
It really is amazing how effective he has been with his con.
While you clearly reject the idea that he's a potential criminal, do you not think that what this latest indictment has revealed indicates that Trump is unfit for high office, let alone one with as much attendant power as the US Presidency?
Think about it: If he knew the election had not been stolen and acted to undermine the peaceful transfer of power anyway, then he is a clear and present danger to the rule of law in the most fundamental sense. If he somehow believed that election had been stolen (as per his legal defense), in spite of all evidence and expert counsel to the contrary, does this not indicate that he is dangerously delusional, and thus unfit for high office?
Note: This is a question for people whose rational faculties are still intact Please don't bother responding if you're crazy enough to think the election actually was stolen. Not even Trump's legal defense is sticking with that insane line.
P.S. My own view is that a non-trivial number of diehard Trump supporters (maybe even close to a majority) believe that he knowingly tried to prevent the legitimate and peaceful transfer of power with the aim of remaining in office unconstitutionally, and that he was right to do so even if Biden won the election. American fascism today is founded on the belief that extreme defensive measures are required to prevent what amounts to a "lib/woke/communist" destruction of American society and culture (they believe it has already subverted the political order beyond reform). The increasingly mainstream American far right sees erstwhile partisan political struggle as having morphed into total war in which the majority of the country's major institutions are arrayed against it, the "real America", and are prepared to use every means available, legal and otherwise, to maintain a decadent and corrupt liberal order. It (the far right) sees establishment attempts to stop Trump as clear evidence of this intent. In attempting to stop Biden's ascension to the Presidency, many see Trump as having merely played by rules established long ago by corrupt liberals and their "deep state". In which case, he's only called out liberal establishment hypocrisy. There are no crimes when your enemy is criminal.
That was a very insightful post. You presented the conundrum of the Trump supporter either thinking Trump knew that he lost fairly but tried to undermine the peaceful transfer of power of anyway or he didn't know and is just a delusional idiot and in either case should not be president. (If the Trump supporter is also a delusional idiot and believes Trump won, than there is no conundrum for them here). You also made a good point about why Trump supporters are okay with Trump's criminal behavior. You stated, ".....belief that extreme defensive measures are required to prevent what amounts to a "lib/woke/communist" destruction of American society and culture..."
I believe what has happened in this country is really a tragedy. Trump is a brilliant conman. Keep in mind that a very financially effective conman is one who can con 5% of his attempted marks. Trump has conned the majority of Republicans and about 35-40%% of the population. Now maybe the Republican party was fertile ground for a conman like Trump to step in and take over and maybe even the party was not only looking for a Trump but actually reinforced the development of his extreme con because they wanted it. Nevertheless Trump is a brilliantly clever conman.
There a certain strategies he employs that make him so effective (and destructive). He is able to make his followers feel like they are in a special club with him and he speaks to them how you might speak to a close friend privately, honestly and at times inappropriately. He develops personal relationships with those who work for him (gets their loyalty) but he shows severe anger at those who cross him keeping loyalty out of fear. He knows that a lie repeated numerously becomes viewed as the truth. He knows how to demonize groups to his advantage. He has charisma and humor which engages groups and disarms rivals. He has a ton of energy. He tells people what they want to hear and he can speak lies with a very high degree of believability. He has a way of thinking of always externalizing blame and this comes fluently and natural to him. He knows how to brand and he knows how to sell.
It really is amazing how effective he has been with his con.
Do you think Democrats were trying to undermine democracy and overthrow the government when they objected to the election results in 2000, 2004, and 2016?
This post was edited 22 seconds after it was posted.
Russia sentences Putin’s chief political rival to 19 years in prison for extremism. Meanwhile in America, Biden’s chief political rival is about to face a 4th indictment. We will see that and raise.
That was a very insightful post. You presented the conundrum of the Trump supporter either thinking Trump knew that he lost fairly but tried to undermine the peaceful transfer of power of anyway or he didn't know and is just a delusional idiot and in either case should not be president. (If the Trump supporter is also a delusional idiot and believes Trump won, than there is no conundrum for them here). You also made a good point about why Trump supporters are okay with Trump's criminal behavior. You stated, ".....belief that extreme defensive measures are required to prevent what amounts to a "lib/woke/communist" destruction of American society and culture..."
I believe what has happened in this country is really a tragedy. Trump is a brilliant conman. Keep in mind that a very financially effective conman is one who can con 5% of his attempted marks. Trump has conned the majority of Republicans and about 35-40%% of the population. Now maybe the Republican party was fertile ground for a conman like Trump to step in and take over and maybe even the party was not only looking for a Trump but actually reinforced the development of his extreme con because they wanted it. Nevertheless Trump is a brilliantly clever conman.
There a certain strategies he employs that make him so effective (and destructive). He is able to make his followers feel like they are in a special club with him and he speaks to them how you might speak to a close friend privately, honestly and at times inappropriately. He develops personal relationships with those who work for him (gets their loyalty) but he shows severe anger at those who cross him keeping loyalty out of fear. He knows that a lie repeated numerously becomes viewed as the truth. He knows how to demonize groups to his advantage. He has charisma and humor which engages groups and disarms rivals. He has a ton of energy. He tells people what they want to hear and he can speak lies with a very high degree of believability. He has a way of thinking of always externalizing blame and this comes fluently and natural to him. He knows how to brand and he knows how to sell.
It really is amazing how effective he has been with his con.
Do you think Democrats were trying to undermine democracy and overthrow the government when they objected to the election results in 2000, 2004, and 2016?
Which one of those sitting presidents instructed their VP to not do their job? Which one called state election officials to 'find' votes? Did I miss the mob of rioters in 2000, 2004 and 2016 storming the Capital building? Which one was a child and did not attend their successors inauguration?
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The GOP perspective at the upper echelons is that deregulation and offshoring are necessary for US companies to compete in a global market and thus for American society as a whole which isn't obviously wrong. It's pretty much the neo-liberal view as well.
What Trump/the GOP/Fox have managed much better than the democrats recently is making blue collar workers feel heard regardless of whether they've done anything substantial to help them. The "culture wars" give many of these people a perceived win while not really being of benefit. In a hierarchical worldview, bringing down one's perceived enemies still can maintain one's position on the status hierarchy even if everybody is sinking.
West Virginia was the bluest state in the country not too long ago. Now it's one of the reddest. If you want a real look at how the Democrats treat blue collar workers look at West Virginia.
West Virginia coal mining got crushed by (more economical) western states strip mining and then by (even more economical and arguably cleaner) natural gas fracking.
The GOP managed to pin the blame on environmental regulations. Certainly these were a factor, but coal is dying because of market forces regardless. The GOP isn't going to save West Virginians either, but they've found a common enemy for awhile.
Do you think Democrats were trying to undermine democracy and overthrow the government when they objected to the election results in 2000, 2004, and 2016?
Which one of those sitting presidents instructed their VP to not do their job? Which one called state election officials to 'find' votes? Did I miss the mob of rioters in 2000, 2004 and 2016 storming the Capital building? Which one was a child and did not attend their successors inauguration?
That was a very insightful post. You presented the conundrum of the Trump supporter either thinking Trump knew that he lost fairly but tried to undermine the peaceful transfer of power of anyway or he didn't know and is just a delusional idiot and in either case should not be president. (If the Trump supporter is also a delusional idiot and believes Trump won, than there is no conundrum for them here). You also made a good point about why Trump supporters are okay with Trump's criminal behavior. You stated, ".....belief that extreme defensive measures are required to prevent what amounts to a "lib/woke/communist" destruction of American society and culture..."
I believe what has happened in this country is really a tragedy. Trump is a brilliant conman. Keep in mind that a very financially effective conman is one who can con 5% of his attempted marks. Trump has conned the majority of Republicans and about 35-40%% of the population. Now maybe the Republican party was fertile ground for a conman like Trump to step in and take over and maybe even the party was not only looking for a Trump but actually reinforced the development of his extreme con because they wanted it. Nevertheless Trump is a brilliantly clever conman.
There a certain strategies he employs that make him so effective (and destructive). He is able to make his followers feel like they are in a special club with him and he speaks to them how you might speak to a close friend privately, honestly and at times inappropriately. He develops personal relationships with those who work for him (gets their loyalty) but he shows severe anger at those who cross him keeping loyalty out of fear. He knows that a lie repeated numerously becomes viewed as the truth. He knows how to demonize groups to his advantage. He has charisma and humor which engages groups and disarms rivals. He has a ton of energy. He tells people what they want to hear and he can speak lies with a very high degree of believability. He has a way of thinking of always externalizing blame and this comes fluently and natural to him. He knows how to brand and he knows how to sell.
It really is amazing how effective he has been with his con.
Do you think Democrats were trying to undermine democracy and overthrow the government when they objected to the election results in 2000, 2004, and 2016?
Did they storm the Capitol to stop the certification of the vote? Did they threaten to kill the Vice President and members of Congress?
Which one of those sitting presidents instructed their VP to not do their job? Which one called state election officials to 'find' votes? Did I miss the mob of rioters in 2000, 2004 and 2016 storming the Capital building? Which one was a child and did not attend their successors inauguration?
West Virginia was the bluest state in the country not too long ago. Now it's one of the reddest. If you want a real look at how the Democrats treat blue collar workers look at West Virginia.
West Virginia coal mining got crushed by (more economical) western states strip mining and then by (even more economical and arguably cleaner) natural gas fracking.
The GOP managed to pin the blame on environmental regulations. Certainly these were a factor, but coal is dying because of market forces regardless. The GOP isn't going to save West Virginians either, but they've found a common enemy for awhile.
"And for a lot of people, the sources of those changes are clear: Democrats and environmental regulations. President Barack Obama’s plans to cut power plant carbon emissions by 30 percent impacted coal directly. Hillary Clinton’s electoral drubbing here was driven in part by her promise to put “a lot of coal miners” out of work in pursuit of clean energy."
The people of West Virginia don't agree with you. But they're Republicans now so you can just call them stupid and pretend they don't know what they're talking about.
Trump didn't ask Pence to do anything the Constitution doesn't allow.
We've reached - "He did it but it's not illegal"
You're wrong, by the way.
Really Sherlock? No one has ever denied what he was trying to do. He thinks the election was fraudulent and wanted to delay certifying the results until it could more properly looked in to. He did the only thing he could do which was contest the results. He failed. He left office.
Nothing was illegal.
If Pence does what he asked him to do it would have ended up in the court and the issue would have been resolved in the courts. The notion that he was just going to declare victory outside the law is leftist nonsense.
Do you think Democrats were trying to undermine democracy and overthrow the government when they objected to the election results in 2000, 2004, and 2016?
Did they storm the Capitol to stop the certification of the vote? Did they threaten to kill the Vice President and members of Congress?
Those idiots don't represent the GoP any more than antifa represents the Democrats.
Actually, that's a bad example since Democrats fund and defend antifa...
Really Sherlock? No one has ever denied what he was trying to do. He thinks the election was fraudulent and wanted to delay certifying the results until it could more properly looked in to. He did the only thing he could do which was contest the results. He failed. He left office.
Nothing was illegal.
If Pence does what he asked him to do it would have ended up in the court and the issue would have been resolved in the courts. The notion that he was just going to declare victory outside the law is leftist nonsense.
The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted.
Where’s the part about rejecting ones he doesn’t like?
Just change the names in this story from “Trump and Pence” to “Clinton and Gore” or “Obama and Biden” and see how not illegal it sounds to you.
Trump didn't ask Pence to do anything the Constitution doesn't allow.
We've reached - "He did it but it's not illegal"
You're wrong, by the way.
We've also reached a new conclusion about the 2020 election.
Instead of "He won. It was rigged," it is now, "He's allowed to lie. That's protected by the First Amendment! Lying isn't illegal!"
(And the prosecutors agree and put it in the indictment. He's allowed to lie. He's not allowed to create fake electors with forged documents though. That's not speech. That's action.)
Really Sherlock? No one has ever denied what he was trying to do. He thinks the election was fraudulent and wanted to delay certifying the results until it could more properly looked in to. He did the only thing he could do which was contest the results. He failed. He left office.
Nothing was illegal.
If Pence does what he asked him to do it would have ended up in the court and the issue would have been resolved in the courts. The notion that he was just going to declare victory outside the law is leftist nonsense.
The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted.
Where’s the part about rejecting ones he doesn’t like?
Just change the names in this story from “Trump and Pence” to “Clinton and Gore” or “Obama and Biden” and see how not illegal it sounds to you.
Google the Electoral Count Act of 1887.
Anyone who tells you what Trump asked Pence to do was unprecedented is lying to you.
If it was so clear cut what was the purpose of the Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022?
If this was a Democrat the only difference would be the entire media would be on the side of the rioters and January 6th would be called "mostly peaceful" and memory holed by January 7th.
Do you think Democrats were trying to undermine democracy and overthrow the government when they objected to the election results in 2000, 2004, and 2016?
Which one of those sitting presidents instructed their VP to not do their job? Which one called state election officials to 'find' votes? Did I miss the mob of rioters in 2000, 2004 and 2016 storming the Capital building? Which one was a child and did not attend their successors inauguration?
Yes well said, delusion is thick with that one. Did Trump help him to be that way or even without a Trump would he have had the same level of delusion?
