TME probably didn’t announce it yet because they have product in the process of being embroidered for their next drop. It’s the pink slip collection, coming soon, smash that like button.
TME probably didn’t announce it yet because they have product in the process of being embroidered for their next drop. It’s the pink slip collection, coming soon, smash that like button.
shea it aint so wrote:
Quick aside:
How bad is the quoting feature on this site!?
I’m using mobile and have to scroll down for 5 seconds to see a two word reply because people are quoting like 5 posts, each super long.
Why is this message board still straight out of 2003?
I didn't fix the long quotes issue but if you want to have a go at a different mobile experience, feel free to try
http://lrcreader.com/God of Wine wrote:
Hmm..
Seth DeMoor as a YouTuber or
Tinman Elite as Merchandise Pushers?
Who do you prefer?
Seth
Definitely Seth. Tinman guys are a bunch of clowns. They also suck at running.
Ace_of_Base wrote:
TME probably didn’t announce it yet because they have product in the process of being embroidered for their next drop. It’s the pink slip collection, coming soon, smash that like button.
It wouldn’t surprise me if this is true, which makes them leaking the story even less likely.
lrcreader wrote:
shea it aint so wrote:
Quick aside:
How bad is the quoting feature on this site!?
I’m using mobile and have to scroll down for 5 seconds to see a two word reply because people are quoting like 5 posts, each super long.
Why is this message board still straight out of 2003?
I didn't fix the long quotes issue but if you want to have a go at a different mobile experience, feel free to try
http://lrcreader.com/
This is definitely a better mobile experience.
the $200 man wrote:
. . .Maybe Tom should come up with a new nickname. . .
It sure shouldn't be "T Bone". George on Seinfeld wanted this name:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5ibSvOWAMg"Tinman Elite" changing its name to "T Bone Elite" wouldn't cut it, either, for that matter, even though they could keep their "T" logo, minus the text on the ribbon, should they take that new name.
No. Forget that idea. Cory Leslie's nickname is "T Bone"*, and the boys now know better than to name a team after a person, even if it's just a nickname.
*No, not really, but too many readers on this site will still believe it, because they believe just about anything posted on LRC that isn't obviously in conflict with their points of view on the overall issues of a message thread. (Most of these people were swindled into buying an acre plot of Florida swamp, I mean primo waterfront real estate, and they just love the accuracy of Wikipedia, too.)
Another new team name possibility, enabling them to retain the "T" logo: "Tammy Elite", which could be referred to as "TME" by some. No, forget that idea for obvious reasons.
Could Tinman get a trademark on Hunter Elite?
Why is everyone so worked up about them having “Tinman” in their name? The real crime here is the use of “Elite”.
shea it aint so wrote:
lonesome moon wrote:
The difference between how the two families handled their business couldn’t be more stark — Hunter skipped college, signed a contract of debatable size, and was allowed to do whatever he wanted by his mom and his sponsor.
Fisher has a degree from Stanford, probably an equally fat contract from Nike, and is just up in PC quietly hammering away.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Grant makes up the money from years he missed with time and team incentives by the end of next year..
This is actually a major issue in our sport. Grant was offered some good contracts coming out of college, but wouldn’t have a place to go (read: the other shoe companies) and decided to take a huge pay cut to go to Jerry. He’s paid much less than the “starting teachers salary” that Tinman’s wife alludes to.
I’m sure there are other benefits to being there- maybe some help with lodging, travel, altitude camps, etc. but this is a situation where you can be the 24 year old who signed for long term guaranteed money (at 19) or the 25 year old who waited, went to the best school, won an ncaa title and now is in the best training environment.... and makes peanuts.
Kind of no win situation.
You are clueless.
Fisher has had the experience of University (academically, athletically, socially, and a EE degree from Stanford to fall back on), had multiple offers out of University and made the right decision for him to have success, is contractually doing very well, trains with the best group in the USA with guys that push him and an exceptionally knowledgeable coach. He doesn’t play the “look at me” social media flogging crap BS, keeps his head down and trains, remains humble in his interviews, informative with his podcast, and keeps getting stronger and faster.
Very unlike TME.
lonesome moon wrote:
dhdj wrote:
OK but why is it worth SOMETHING? Why? If there is a legal issue here, then does anyone have legal ownership of this valuable SOMETHING? Is this clear or unclear? Tinman sounds like something that could be replaced as a name but of course I must be missing something.
What kind of question is that? Why are the names Nike or Louis Vuitton worth something? It’s the same exact concept, albeit a completely different scale, but at some point a long time ago the name Nike was worth the same that Tinman is worth today.
LV is Louis Vuitton not Lukas Verzbikas
I had a bad experience with Tinman too. Myself, my girlfriend and my former teammate all decided to sign up for Tinman coaching to train for a half marathon (my girlfriend for a 5k). For 3 months we all got the exact same training plan.
We confronted him about it and he got really angry that we were questioning him.
` wrote:
No. Typically re-branding comes with a bit of confusion. People who don't follow them that closely will be confused. Eventually, I'm sure they'll be able to sell just as much, but they will take a short term hit.
They also will have to buy new merchandise, taking a loss on the current merchandise they have in stock. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
Alternatively, rebranding might even help them. It's like if you are Lebron fan, you've gotta get the new jersey. It always amazes me when some role player gets traded in the nfl and they end up having liek the #5 selling jersey for a few months.
They don't have to take a loss on their current. They should be allowed to sell the current stuff - just give him a cut. Not too complicated.
I'll try to be another voice of reason here. I'm a masters runner and worked on and off with Tom over the last 10 years, maybe 4 years worth in total. Most interaction was by email but also spoke on the phone with him (very few texts). His prices have gone up as he got famous: I'm pretty sure I always paid him between $100-125 per month. I'd work with him for up to a year, sort of lose touch with him, then decide that I liked the structure of having someone else write my training program for the rough cost of a gym membership so would start back up with him.
My thoughts in no particular order:
1. I think his training philosophy makes sense for younger, newer and masters runners for sure. An emphasis on tempo/CV type training, less speed/intervals, no hero workouts (keep the ball rolling) are all great things imo to build up without overdoing it. Like others, I've become less convinced that his approach makes sense for world class runners (esp the lack of individualization and the lack of pushing the envelope to get that last 1-2%), but I don't claim to be the expert on how pro runners should train.
2. I don't blame Drew for wanting to move on. He hasn't run up to expectations, which may or may not be Tom's fault, so it's natural to want to make a change. Lots of athletes do, and time will tell whether it will help or not. Regardless of all the drama, I have no doubt that this was driven by training/results and not the dramatic sideshow stuff like politics.
3. We don't know the other side of the story, but it sounds like Drew should have driven to Tom's house and told him in person. Just given the 9 year relationship plus the relationship with the mother. I don't think a phone call was a felony-level offense, but it would have been more classy to do it in person. Something a 23 year old might not have known and should now know. Otoh, someone speculated that Tom wasn't making himself available, so maybe Drew tried. Still, seems like Tom would have been findable.
4. Other than terminating over the phone, I think TME has handled this pretty well. Sounds like both sides agreed to keep it quiet, so it's not their fault the website and name are unchanged, and since it got public TME has been very diplomatic and polite in its statements. I never met or interacted with Tammy, but she has come across, well, a little frenzied and out there. I get that this is emotional and will give her a pass, but this would have died down earlier if she hadn't started launching broadsides on here.
5. TME should re-brand. I suspect that Tom has sufficient prior-use to win any trademark fight (registration is not the be all end all and can be challenged), but more importantly I think it would be the classy thing to do. I do agree with a lot of posters who think that the "brand" was built more on the runners, esp Drew, than on Tom, i.e., the average high school kid who follows Tinman Elite on youtube and IG probably doesn't know or care who the coach is or what "Tinman" is supposed to mean. But, still, Tom is Tinman and it makes sense to use another name.
6. Tom is a bit socially awkward, long-winded and definitely dogmatic. I don't think that disqualifies him as a coach, but I know that can wear on people.
7. As others have said, if he was foisting anti-covid, pro-Trump, stop-the-steal conspiracy stuff on his athletes, that would wear out his welcome along with the other stuff. I would feel the same about some Bernie Bro doing the same. As I said, Tom is dogmatic and a bit of a know-it-all, so it doesn't honestly surprise me that he would cross into this territory. Pro/online coaching is still a service/client business and let's just say that Tom's recent fame may have led him to forget that.
8. Tom owes as much or more to Drew than Drew does to Tom. Drew was and still is an amazing talent, and good for Tom for coaching him well. But let's face it, Drew would have been a big success under a lot of coaches and Tom is now famous and attracted a whole bunch of business because of the success that Drew had. That's true for a lot of coaches of course, but I say this only in reaction to some who seem to think that Drew owes Tom everything and that the benefits were all one-direction.
9. The attention Tom gave to remote athletes like me declined over the years. I think he ended up being spread pretty thin as he got more successful and took on more clients, remote and elite. I don't actually hold that against him: I didn't begrudge him making a living and I'm not sure how much "coaching" you're really going to get from any online coach.
10. I think most of the people piling on TME were probably people who didn't like TME in the first place.
11. Tom is going to be fine. TME will do its thing. Hopefully Drew builds on his 13:17. I'm still a fan of both guys. If someone asked me about signing up with Tom, I'd still say to go for it just so long as they know they aren't going to get a ton of attention.
Good post. My personal pendulum of judgement has swung back and forth a few times throughout this thread but it seems, as with many (but not all) things, the truth is in the middle.
former client. wrote:
I'll try to be another voice of reason here. I'm a masters runner and worked on and off with Tom over the last 10 years, maybe 4 years worth in total. Most interaction was by email but also spoke on the phone with him (very few texts). His prices have gone up as he got famous: I'm pretty sure I always paid him between $100-125 per month. I'd work with him for up to a year, sort of lose touch with him, then decide that I liked the structure of having someone else write my training program for the rough cost of a gym membership so would start back up with him.
My thoughts in no particular order:
1. I think his training philosophy makes sense for younger, newer and masters runners for sure. An emphasis on tempo/CV type training, less speed/intervals, no hero workouts (keep the ball rolling) are all great things imo to build up without overdoing it. Like others, I've become less convinced that his approach makes sense for world class runners (esp the lack of individualization and the lack of pushing the envelope to get that last 1-2%), but I don't claim to be the expert on how pro runners should train.
2. I don't blame Drew for wanting to move on. He hasn't run up to expectations, which may or may not be Tom's fault, so it's natural to want to make a change. Lots of athletes do, and time will tell whether it will help or not. Regardless of all the drama, I have no doubt that this was driven by training/results and not the dramatic sideshow stuff like politics.
3. We don't know the other side of the story, but it sounds like Drew should have driven to Tom's house and told him in person. Just given the 9 year relationship plus the relationship with the mother. I don't think a phone call was a felony-level offense, but it would have been more classy to do it in person. Something a 23 year old might not have known and should now know. Otoh, someone speculated that Tom wasn't making himself available, so maybe Drew tried. Still, seems like Tom would have been findable.
4. Other than terminating over the phone, I think TME has handled this pretty well. Sounds like both sides agreed to keep it quiet, so it's not their fault the website and name are unchanged, and since it got public TME has been very diplomatic and polite in its statements. I never met or interacted with Tammy, but she has come across, well, a little frenzied and out there. I get that this is emotional and will give her a pass, but this would have died down earlier if she hadn't started launching broadsides on here.
5. TME should re-brand. I suspect that Tom has sufficient prior-use to win any trademark fight (registration is not the be all end all and can be challenged), but more importantly I think it would be the classy thing to do. I do agree with a lot of posters who think that the "brand" was built more on the runners, esp Drew, than on Tom, i.e., the average high school kid who follows Tinman Elite on youtube and IG probably doesn't know or care who the coach is or what "Tinman" is supposed to mean. But, still, Tom is Tinman and it makes sense to use another name.
6. Tom is a bit socially awkward, long-winded and definitely dogmatic. I don't think that disqualifies him as a coach, but I know that can wear on people.
7. As others have said, if he was foisting anti-covid, pro-Trump, stop-the-steal conspiracy stuff on his athletes, that would wear out his welcome along with the other stuff. I would feel the same about some Bernie Bro doing the same. As I said, Tom is dogmatic and a bit of a know-it-all, so it doesn't honestly surprise me that he would cross into this territory. Pro/online coaching is still a service/client business and let's just say that Tom's recent fame may have led him to forget that.
8. Tom owes as much or more to Drew than Drew does to Tom. Drew was and still is an amazing talent, and good for Tom for coaching him well. But let's face it, Drew would have been a big success under a lot of coaches and Tom is now famous and attracted a whole bunch of business because of the success that Drew had. That's true for a lot of coaches of course, but I say this only in reaction to some who seem to think that Drew owes Tom everything and that the benefits were all one-direction.
9. The attention Tom gave to remote athletes like me declined over the years. I think he ended up being spread pretty thin as he got more successful and took on more clients, remote and elite. I don't actually hold that against him: I didn't begrudge him making a living and I'm not sure how much "coaching" you're really going to get from any online coach.
10. I think most of the people piling on TME were probably people who didn't like TME in the first place.
11. Tom is going to be fine. TME will do its thing. Hopefully Drew builds on his 13:17. I'm still a fan of both guys. If someone asked me about signing up with Tom, I'd still say to go for it just so long as they know they aren't going to get a ton of attention.
if the uk is anything to go by then the word 'tinman' alone is completely open;
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/search?q=tinman
You would need to combine it with something. so; tinman elite probably belongs to tinman elite, but Schwarts could use tinman training, coach tinman, tinman usa, total tit tinman etc.
so its a nothingburger. tinman cant exist alone except as a short name for any combination he can make up.
Oh, and LV stands for Lotka Volterra.
Still, How can you expect him to drive to Greeley to go tell his coach in person in the middle of a pandemic? Wouldn’t a video call do the trick?
The transition, many possibilities :
Tits n’ Beer Elite, Semen travelers (at Critical Velocity)
LV as lotka volterra OK but...
Use of the word in hip hop culture (so no it’s not Lukas Verzbikas, that we could agree on even 7 years ago on LetsRun)
“Hopping out all rugged...
LV on the luggage...
DBlock chain
You think I’m playin’ for the Nuggets”. Jadakiss
Tammy ”should of” ______________{fill in the blank}
shea it aint so wrote:
This is actually a major issue in our sport. Grant was offered some good contracts coming out of college, but wouldn’t have a place to go (read: the other shoe companies) and decided to take a huge pay cut to go to Jerry. He’s paid much less than the “starting teachers salary” that Tinman’s wife alludes to.
I’m sure there are other benefits to being there- maybe some help with lodging, travel, altitude camps, etc. but this is a situation where you can be the 24 year old who signed for long term guaranteed money (at 19) or the 25 year old who waited, went to the best school, won an ncaa title and now is in the best training environment.... and makes peanuts.
Kind of no win situation.
You are clueless.
Fisher has had the experience of University (academically, athletically, socially, and a EE degree from Stanford to fall back on), had multiple offers out of University and made the right decision for him to have success, is contractually doing very well, trains with the best group in the USA with guys that push him and an exceptionally knowledgeable coach. He doesn’t play the “look at me” social media flogging crap BS, keeps his head down and trains, remains humble in his interviews, informative with his podcast, and keeps getting stronger and faster.
Very unlike TME.[/quote]
How am I clueless?
Was simply pointing out that Drew took the money- a guaranteed 1-2M (depending on who you talk to) and has had a strong albeit not amazing early career.
Grant took the scholarship to the top school and had an amazing ncaa career before landing at the very best training group in the US (world?) with one of the top coaches in the world. There’s not a lot more he could have done.... and he’s got 35K a year from Nike.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
If the deal was 10 years at $300K per year, you've just front-loaded career high earnings in a 30-40 year working life. We have no idea what kind of student Drew Hunter was, other than he signed with Oregon. Grant Fisher's got an EE from Stanford, his non-running peak earnings are likely much higher than Drew Hunter. What percentage of Americans ever make $300K for 10 straight years? And we don't know the family financial situation, other than Drew Hunter is one of nine kids.
And Adidas may have paid for the tuition at CU. So a degree from a flagship university.
1 post was removed from this page.