I don't believe its received attention on this thread, but Trump has made a ridiculous demand, an indirect demand and a suggestion:
1) He's ordered the meat processing plants to remain open. They can't do so if people are getting sick and keeping them open is 100% up to the owner and/or union.
2) He wants to give a commencement speech at the West Point graduation. This will require travel from all over the country, risk of infection and a 14-day quarantine in the dorms. Unlike other colleges where it would be up to the students, the cadets will be ordered to attend. I'm not sure, though, what the punishment would be for not attending.
3) He believes the grade schools should be reopened. It seems that the chance of getting infected would be extremely high. With a 2-3% chance of going to the big fun run in the sky, there is absolutely no way I'm letting my children return even I'm arrested for enabling truants.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
3) He believes the grade schools should be reopened. It seems that the chance of getting infected would be extremely high. With a 2-3% chance of going to the big fun run in the sky, there is absolutely no way I'm letting my children return even I'm arrested for enabling truants.
the risk is to teachers, staff and parents, not so much to the kids.
and that 2-3% number is crazy wrong, unless you are 70 years old.
Suggestion: read your link before posting. "Averages of general election polls give Trump 42.1 percent to Joe Biden’s 47.4 percent."
Forgotten Man. wrote:
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-approval-rating-hits-time-143204836.html
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
Unfortunately, I think you are right. We just aren't doing what we need to do to stop the spread.
It takes the kind of control and organization that China has. We have to figure out how to achieve China's results without an authoritarian government. So far we are failing miserably.
Many people, including some LR posters are offended by the current precautions. China did things like weld the entrance door shut of apartment buildings. Would Americans be cool with that?
It sounds like wherever you got that information misrepresented what was happening. What China did was to severely restrict who goes in and out of apartment buildings. To do so probably did require closing off certain entrances and may have even involved welding.
As I understand it from my colleagues in China, they were always allowed to go out to get food and take a walk for exercise. But they were restricted as to how far they could go and you were not allowed to visit a building you did not live in. That's why they closed off entrances. You had to get your temperature taken and prove you live there before you were allowed into the building.
No, Americans would not be cool with that. But we have to admit that China has done a far better job handling the coronavirus. China's outbreak is fully contained and their economy is almost back to normal. It only took about four months and they have 1.4 billion people.
From a strictly epidemiological standpoint, China did an amazing job.
Meanwhile, we are acting like this is over and we have done almost nothing to stop the virus. Our economy won't be back to normal until at least the end of the year, probably longer.
agip wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
3) He believes the grade schools should be reopened. It seems that the chance of getting infected would be extremely high. With a 2-3% chance of going to the big fun run in the sky, there is absolutely no way I'm letting my children return even I'm arrested for enabling truants.
the risk is to teachers, staff and parents, not so much to the kids.
and that 2-3% number is crazy wrong, unless you are 70 years old.
It's surprisingly hard to find death rates, but being in my early sixties, puts me at 2% based on this article. If I was Italian, it would be over 3%:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-seasonal-flu-in-the-us-death-rates-2020-3%3fampI understand that the risk of my kids dying from the virus is virtually zero, but I don't know about the possibilty of lung damage. Teachers, staff and parents becoming infected is exactly my point.
agip wrote:
Racket wrote:
That's awfully cynical
Why would anyone think that the American public wont' act collectively in the public interest?
Just look! We shut down the economy to save a few hundred thousand elderly peoples' lives.
People are staying home and impoverishing themselves to help other people.
The health care system has millions of people risking their lives to help others.
Seriously. The US public is doing a great altruistic job.
THe problem is the government, which cant' get a testing/tracing program going.
I think you are right. The American people are willing to make the sacrifice for the greater good just like we did during World War II. But I would identify these three problems as the things that are holding us back:
1) Lack of testing and contact tracing
2) Lack of a social safety net (both income protection and universal health care)
3) States opening too soon
Number 2 is the cause of number 3. If everyone was financially able to stay home, we could better manage this crisis and we wouldn't have so much pressure to open up and spread the virus.
There is one overriding reason for this whole mess and that is a lack of leadership. This falls squarely on the president. A national crisis requires national leadership. But instead of FDR we have Archie Bunker.
agip wrote:
I'm starting to think that the way this goes is a long plateau.
A bell curve might be too much to ask for at this point.
Social distancing flattened the curve, as promised. But now what? We go on with no economy until a vaccine or all the vulnerable people die?
We're most likely just going to go on with a thousand people per day dying...for a long time.
We just have to look at China to see that it doesn't have to be that way. But you have to get things under control before you can open up. It just takes a few months. Unfortunately, we have chosen not to give people the support they need to hold out for those few months.
agip wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
3) He believes the grade schools should be reopened. It seems that the chance of getting infected would be extremely high. With a 2-3% chance of going to the big fun run in the sky, there is absolutely no way I'm letting my children return even I'm arrested for enabling truants.
the risk is to teachers, staff and parents, not so much to the kids.
and that 2-3% number is crazy wrong, unless you are 70 years old.
I'm not sure we really know if that's a crazy number or not, but 2-3% is probably high.
Trump is absolutely nuts. The Michigan governor should meet with a few hundred protestors with rifles and make a deal? Will he send her a copy of the Art of the Deal to improve her negotiating skills?
SDSU Aztec wrote:
2) He wants to give a commencement speech at the West Point graduation. This will require travel from all over the country, risk of infection and a 14-day quarantine in the dorms. Unlike other colleges where it would be up to the students, the cadets will be ordered to attend. I'm not sure, though, what the punishment would be for not attending.
We are talking about a bunch of young, healthy and fit people. They won't get seriously ill, let alone dying, even if they catch coronavirus. There might be some mild infections, but you can test and quarantine them after the commencement if necessary.
If you think your personal health is more important than serving our country, maybe you shouldn't have enrolled in a service academy.
Trollminator wrote:
Racket wrote:
That's awfully cynical
But it has merit... I don't think we can depend on a constructive public sentiment in times of crisis - people are very divided and unfortunately on very significant issues. And that of course is awful because it gives the politicians room to play on people's emotions and differences instead of serving them the best way possible.
CORRECT! We have a bozo in the White House who can't stop lying even about this very important issue. He mentions injecting disinfectants and suddenly poison control call centers have to take a ton of calls. It's madness. There was a great episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where an alien race who didn't have the ability to create starships, instead stole them. They had an issue with the one they were in, and the leader said to Geordi while his crew looked on, "Can you make it go?" This is how I view Trump and his stupid Trumpers, except they don't even have sense enough to ask questions. They just don't know how to make it go or how to do anything.
Forgotten Man. wrote:
We are talking about a bunch of young, healthy and fit people. They won't get seriously ill, let alone dying, even if they catch coronavirus. There might be some mild infections, but you can test and quarantine them after the commencement if necessary.
If you think your personal health is more important than serving our country, maybe you shouldn't have enrolled in a service academy.
^ Anti-lifer
FYI: Serving your country does not include being forced to listen to a rally speech by Trump.
Racket wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
But it has merit... I don't think we can depend on a constructive public sentiment in times of crisis - people are very divided and unfortunately on very significant issues. And that of course is awful because it gives the politicians room to play on people's emotions and differences instead of serving them the best way possible.
I think people are way less divided than you realize.
However, I'm certain we're told we're extremely divided everyday because we're obsessed with news entertainment
I'm never quite clear where you stand politically, but I was privy to a Facebook conversation the other day where a bunch of Trumpers were saying it was a good idea for doctors to look into what Trump suggested...to inject people with disinfectants. They defended him by saying he said that doctors should look into it. No! They should not. We already know what will happen. There are unfortunately a ton of very stupid and ignorant people in our country, most of whom believe everything Trump says. That makes us divided, because smart people can not tolerate such idiocy. Very dangerous when a dumb person with dumb followers is in charge.
agip wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
But it has merit... I don't think we can depend on a constructive public sentiment in times of crisis - people are very divided and unfortunately on very significant issues. And that of course is awful because it gives the politicians room to play on people's emotions and differences instead of serving them the best way possible.
don't believe the news.
the nation is not so divided on this.
don't listen to the angry few with guns.
the nation just shut itself down...that's an awesome display of national unity. I'm actually shocked it went this well.
We have people with guns and Don't Tread On Me flags protesting outside the state capital and idiot Trumps calling into the state's largest radio station ever day saying we should all just deal with it if we get it. It's not just a few. Easily 40% of this country isn't for any of the restrictions.
Anyone up for a little socialism? Come on, capitalists, your for-profit healhcare, lack of safety net, and businessman in the WH are an abysmal failure.
Sure Jesse....Per capita income in China is less than $4500.00 per year....That's WITH the billions stolen from the US every year.
Forgotten Man. wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
2) He wants to give a commencement speech at the West Point graduation. This will require travel from all over the country, risk of infection and a 14-day quarantine in the dorms. Unlike other colleges where it would be up to the students, the cadets will be ordered to attend. I'm not sure, though, what the punishment would be for not attending.
We are talking about a bunch of young, healthy and fit people. They won't get seriously ill, let alone dying, even if they catch coronavirus. There might be some mild infections, but you can test and quarantine them after the commencement if necessary.
If you think your personal health is more important than serving our country, maybe you shouldn't have enrolled in a service academy.
Without Trump, no graduation was scheduled. A mandatory 14 day quarentine in the dorms is a pretty big deal and attending graduation ceremonies is not serving their country
Flagpole wrote:
Racket wrote:
I think people are way less divided than you realize.
However, I'm certain we're told we're extremely divided everyday because we're obsessed with news entertainment
I'm never quite clear where you stand politically, but I was privy to a Facebook conversation the other day where a bunch of Trumpers were saying it was a good idea for doctors to look into what Trump suggested...to inject people with disinfectants. They defended him by saying he said that doctors should look into it. No! They should not. We already know what will happen. There are unfortunately a ton of very stupid and ignorant people in our country, most of whom believe everything Trump says. That makes us divided, because smart people can not tolerate such idiocy. Very dangerous when a dumb person with dumb followers is in charge.
No, Flagpole, you're just one of many on the left who thinks a misplaced sense of intellectualism makes you substantially different. Yeah, injecting bleach into your bloodstream is pretty stupid, but many of these people are afraid, and have lost or will lose their job soon. That's the first thing I think of: "These people are afraid and desperate for answers, how can we help them and reach out to them better." Your first reaction is "lol fvcking dumb people, bane of my existence."
A man incapable of empathy or mutual understanding with anyone other than himself; truly the mark of a genius.