Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

I think it's just an easy way of summing up pushing up threshold from below, building up your endurance engine which ultimately improves threshold and vo2 max. I think we all know what people are getting at. You see a lot of language thrown around from all corners of the world. But most people would understand aerobic capacity as just being able to run harder and longer without tiring, before you touch on anything anaerobic. I'm all for keeping stuff and language accessible to all.

For the most part the easiest way to improve is simply the easy gains NSM brings by keeping all running almost purely aerobic. There's likely a point of diminished returns in that, which is why elites train other ways, but i would guess almost nobody in this thread is at that point.

We can argue on the finer points, but focusing on this is why NSM works so well, for so many people. It's low hanging fruit over a prolonged period that people are inherently too lazy to harvest and think a few weeks is an aerobic base and then hit 5k pace repeats and hills, along with insanely hard long runs and are cooked in a month.

On another note, I just watched that Will O'Connor video and it's the hottest mess I've ever seen. I don't even know what is going on with that, but it's absolutely hilarious!

Good post. There isn't a huge amount more to it than this, other than the managing fatigue. The pmc has been brilliant to that for me, I wish I had used it previously. I've probably stuck 6-7 bases phases in a row, if you compare it to when I started to add intensity before. It's not rocket science that after a few months I made absolutely huge breakthroughs on NSM, versus just about any other training I've done before.

As for that video, this is brilliant. I hope it's not deleted! Pure Charlie from it's always sunny vibes with the pen, the whiteboard and the insane amount of jibberish. If you had told me it was a genuine piece of satire, I would have said massive congratulations, a huge laugh at sports science and coaching lol

Couple summaries I like -

Jakob I - I want to run as much as I can, as fast as I can every week. (or something like that).

Sirpoc - I learned how to control intensity. Then I ran more. And then more more. And kept going. A bit like Forrest Gump.
Saved you the time of the thread.

Race regularly. (You want to update your numbers anyway)

Race after base usually gave a good kick on form. Race in fully “sharpened” state never added much. Might have already been overstretched too on occasion.

so how long is a Daniels plan again? 24 weeks?

if he said 3 months you’d be saying that was ridiculous for a different reason

there is not going to be an answer that gets a passing grade for your ‘test’

audition tape for mime school

theres too much concern trolling for marathon specificity and too much of an assumption on ppl stepping through mesocycles in ‘X shape’ and being ‘ready’ for the demands of the next block

if thats all youre doing with your life by all means you ought to be able to thread that needle and make the adjustments you need to, but then ppl come back to the reality that youre just a sanitation worker or an analyst who sits at a desk who happens to like running and racing with your mates on the weekends

Grandma's guy with a 1:06:30 solo half. Seems like within what sirpoc would expect from Strava comment. Wow what a run. Hopefully he writes a recap and gives us the NSM could context or anything sirpoc has shared with him.

NSM vanilla and now appears to be in the marathon block

Just uploaded full recap on strava. Thanks for following along!! Been on vanilla for about a year now and this is my second sirpoc marathon build since I started. Also worth noting this is the longest I’ve been able to stay healthy in my entire running career, almost 1.5 years with no major injuries (more than 2-3 days off). Doing the Houston marathon in 3 weeks

Absolutely inspiring. Great write up. Wish you all the best and I'm sure the thread is fully behind you. I can't wait to see what you can achieve.

All this tells me again is the ones who mess with NSM the least, get the best results. Cheetodust is another. Makes me also wish reading that, sirpoc really needs to actually open market coach people. Seems absolutely invaluable to have someone like that fighting your corner and have such a handle of what you are doing and what the likely outcomes are.

Hopefully you will contribute as much as time allows in the future, good luck in Houston!

Any chance of a copy and paste here?

(I’m not on Strava)

Just to be clear, this is all Wigglewaffle doing the work. We talk, I give advice sometimes, but he's the one getting out there and putting the work in. It's usually just me reassuring him and offering some guidance from afar. My main use is probably working out what shape he's in, so he has a good idea where to pitch things.

All credit goes to him and honestly I can't wait until he hopefully crushes my 2:24

No idea, and my comment has nothing to do with how Daniels or any other training plan is structured. It is based on the fact that fitness is gained and fatigue is shed far too quickly for it to take 6 months for performance to improve (if is going to improve) in response to a change in training.

obviously

yeah not sure about that second statement. i think it comes down to how you attack that fitness angle: you want to boom/bust and start over, sure, you can increase fitness quickly; if you want something sustainable outside of a very short period, then youre looking for something a bit different as far as load

hey, even if it was 6 months, which is very very conservative; gjerts saying 2-3 years when someone switches to Norwegian esq training, so you’re getting quite a bargain!

It isn't about sustainability. It's about how fast the body responds to a (change in) training stimulus. The latter occurs in hours to days, not weeks to months. It therefore shouldn't take 6 months to see any improvement in performance due to "NSM". If it seems to, I would question the validity of the measurement.

Congratulations! What a run!!

I have a question as I am currently planning my own first marathon block since joining the cult last May: you specifically wrote on Strava you wanted to do a half3 weeks before the full. Why exactly 3 weeks? I know sirpoc did it also in his original block, but is there any reason behind?

I have a nice opportunity to do a half 4 weeks before my marathon and was thinking of doing that, but since there seems to be a reason for doing it 3 weeks before, maybe I will go for a solo half TT as well...

Would be cool if you or somebody could elaborate a little further, didn't find anything specific about this in the book or anywhere else.

You seem obsessed with 6 months, are you ok?

Depending on what training you are doing beforehand and how bigger of a hole you dug yourself it depends on how much improvement you make in the first 4-6 weeks, you maybe dropping time, distance, or load.

I think you know this hence your continuously trolling comments, do Daniel’s (insert any other plan) how much did you improved, did you stagnant, did you get faster and then regress and have to again. Look at the numbers of recreational runners who compete and there marginally change from one race to another.

hours?

how F ing clueless can you be honestly?

Not if someone is over trained. It can take months to reverse things.

Some are coming from a heavy VO2max workload, and so are reducing their training load on starting NSM. So again things take time for the training load to catch up.

An older person will not adapt to training as quickly as a youngster.

Not everyone is testing performance frequently. Some may prefer a few months of the new training method, before testing and reporting performance.

The rapid improvement that you are accustomed to comes from the VO2max type training, followed by a plateau. This concentration on the aerobic system takes longer.

etc, etc, ............

if its not about sustainability and you get the benefits in hours, lets here the 5x a week Vo2 schedule you have planned

are you currently reading the hickson/gollnick study?