eric a blair wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:I think very few Republicans actually believe that. They just don't want government to do things for ordinary citizens.
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right, because they think if we let the free market work more, costs would come down, enabling more people to buy insurance if they want.
No, I'm saying they know very well that the free market won't fix the problem.
They just believe dogmatically that government should not fix the problem even when there is market failure.
eric a blair wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:I think very few Republicans actually believe that. They just don't want government to do things for ordinary citizens.
.
right, because they think if we let the free market work more, costs would come down, enabling more people to buy insurance if they want.
Do you even know what you're saying? Do you understand that a free market isn't even possible to get to with what we have in place?
As long as "Health Care" is fee for service, and as long as "Health Insurance" is a middle man for EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION, and as long as there is NO pricing transparency.....there cannot be a "free market."
So until politicians start dismantling these 3 main root causes of the most inefficient system that one could possibly design, we really shouldn't argue over the BS they spout.
Fat hurts wrote:
eric a blair wrote:right, because they think if we let the free market work more, costs would come down, enabling more people to buy insurance if they want.
No, I'm saying they know very well that the free market won't fix the problem.
They just believe dogmatically that government should not fix the problem even when there is market failure.
obvi it is a mix. I'll give some the benefit of the doubt and assume they want the best for the American people. Almost all politicians go into that business with the interest of helping people.
Listen to McConnel's concession speech. Unless you think he is lying through his teeth, he genuinely thinks the free market solution is better than the hybrid we have now.
Conundrum wrote:
eric a blair wrote:to be fair, repubs actually think Obamacare is hurting Americans. They think (or at least some of them think) that by repealing it they would be lowering premims, increasing coverage, etc. They are wrong, but they honestly do think they are doing good.
You give them WAY too much credit. The majority of Republicans just vote to follow the party line.
The rejected vote was not as close as you might think. McCain sacrificed himself to allow many senators who are actually against Trumpcare to vote for it. There are likely only 20 Republican senators who would vote for Trumpcare no matter what it included. The other 31 Republican senators would negotiate something that modifies the existing ACA along with Democrats.
In 2018 the Senate will swing to the Democrats and along with what remains of those 31 Republican senators they will work to revise the ACA. The 20 Trumpcare senators--however many remain after 2018--will always resist anything but Trumpcare.
eric a blair wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:No, I'm saying they know very well that the free market won't fix the problem.
They just believe dogmatically that government should not fix the problem even when there is market failure.
obvi it is a mix. I'll give some the benefit of the doubt and assume they want the best for the American people. Almost all politicians go into that business with the interest of helping people.
Listen to McConnel's concession speech. Unless you think he is lying through his teeth, he genuinely thinks the free market solution is better than the hybrid we have now.
The question is better for who? The answer is the top fraction of 1%. The Republican bill had something like 15% support among American voters. Republicans used it as a fear mongering tactic (tying a muslims name to a bill) to win back the house and senate in 2010. They didn't actually have a solution, and it's just as much their voters fault for not staying informed.
now they're just going through a formality knowing that the public supports Obamacare and wants the government to intervene to bolster the exchanges. It's a sham, and democracy barely prevailed by rejecting it.
Health care industry is a joke wrote:
Do you even know what you're saying? Do you understand that a free market isn't even possible to get to with what we have in place?
As long as "Health Care" is fee for service, and as long as "Health Insurance" is a middle man for EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION, and as long as there is NO pricing transparency.....there cannot be a "free market."
So until politicians start dismantling these 3 main root causes of the most inefficient system that one could possibly design, we really shouldn't argue over the BS they spout.
You are an idiot. You work as a fee for service. Your employer is a middle man for EVERY SINGLE PAYCHECK you get. There is NO pricing transparency--the boss does not want you to know what THEIR cut of YOUR pay is.
Politicians CANNOT create a true FREE MARKET unless they are willing to ban employers. That is what you are demanding to fix, not just healthcare, but the economy. It will never happen. Imagine, an entire country of free-agents working for themselves trying to convince others who, like you, also work for themselves to hire you and pay you so you can make a living. LOL.
eric a blair wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:No, I'm saying they know very well that the free market won't fix the problem.
They just believe dogmatically that government should not fix the problem even when there is market failure.
obvi it is a mix. I'll give some the benefit of the doubt and assume they want the best for the American people. Almost all politicians go into that business with the interest of helping people.
Listen to McConnel's concession speech. Unless you think he is lying through his teeth, he genuinely thinks the free market solution is better than the hybrid we have now.
I'm not saying they don't want what's best (in the abstract). But they think the best is to let the free market do whatever it wants, even if a lot of people get hurt.
Most Republicans who have truly drunk the Kool-Aid believe that the "free market" and "freedom" are two sides of the same coin.
Fat hurts wrote:
eric a blair wrote:obvi it is a mix. I'll give some the benefit of the doubt and assume they want the best for the American people. Almost all politicians go into that business with the interest of helping people.
Listen to McConnel's concession speech. Unless you think he is lying through his teeth, he genuinely thinks the free market solution is better than the hybrid we have now.
I'm not saying they don't want what's best (in the abstract). But they think the best is to let the free market do whatever it wants, even if a lot of people get hurt.
Most Republicans who have truly drunk the Kool-Aid believe that the "free market" and "freedom" are two sides of the same coin.
You have just very badly misused the term "two sides of the same coin".
Please don't do that.
Though growth has averaged only around 2.1% during this expansion, it is currently the third longest in modern American history. Thanks, Obama. It would have been a lot faster if not for the Republican gov't cuts from 2010 on. Now that Europe is expanding faster, that could help, but China is faltering and the projection from the IMF for yearly world economic growth is only 3%, which is low when you factor in all the developing countries with vast growth potential. One of the main drags on it, in their estimate, which includes growth to this point in the year, is the inability of the Republicans to enact infrastructure spending programs, or really anything.
Party Line wrote:
In 2018 the Senate will swing to the Democrats and along with what remains of those 31 Republican senators they will work to revise the ACA. The 20 Trumpcare senators--however many remain after 2018--will always resist anything but Trumpcare.
Uh... do you know how many Democrats are defending their Senate seats in 2018? Many of them in states that Trump won?
zxcvzxcv wrote:
Though growth has averaged only around 2.1% during this expansion, it is currently the third longest in modern American history. Thanks, Obama. It would have been a lot faster if not for the Republican gov't cuts from 2010 on. Now that Europe is expanding faster, that could help, but China is faltering and the projection from the IMF for yearly world economic growth is only 3%, which is low when you factor in all the developing countries with vast growth potential. One of the main drags on it, in their estimate, which includes growth to this point in the year, is the inability of the Republicans to enact infrastructure spending programs, or really anything.
I honestly don't believe the GDP measurement is accurate anymore - it is an old number, based on manufacturing. It doesn't measure the value of brains or advice very well.
I don't think 2% growth would get us to this level of housing boom, full employment, strong stock market, surging corporate profits, etc.
That's not a partisan 'help' to Obama - I think it is still true for Trump.
Coina Rama wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:I'm not saying they don't want what's best (in the abstract). But they think the best is to let the free market do whatever it wants, even if a lot of people get hurt.
Most Republicans who have truly drunk the Kool-Aid believe that the "free market" and "freedom" are two sides of the same coin.
You have just very badly misused the term "two sides of the same coin".
Please don't do that.
I don't believe I did, but if you'd like to elaborate then I'll be happy to listen to your explanation.
Make America Great Again wrote:
Party Line wrote:In 2018 the Senate will swing to the Democrats and along with what remains of those 31 Republican senators they will work to revise the ACA. The 20 Trumpcare senators--however many remain after 2018--will always resist anything but Trumpcare.
Uh... do you know how many Democrats are defending their Senate seats in 2018? Many of them in states that Trump won?
Uh .... do you know that those are states the republicans did not previously win? Of course not. What makes you think that Trump states will forever vote Trump, even if Trump gets impeached? Elections don't work that way, not that your are intelligent enough to understand.
Party Line wrote:
even if Trump gets impeached
please keep your liberal wet dreams to yourself, thanks
none of that please wrote:
Party Line wrote:even if Trump gets impeached
please keep your liberal wet dreams to yourself, thanks
Deer HardLoper. You should be working while your employer is paying for your time.
Party Line wrote:
Make America Great Again wrote:Uh... do you know how many Democrats are defending their Senate seats in 2018? Many of them in states that Trump won?
Uh .... do you know that those are states the republicans did not previously win? Of course not. What makes you think that Trump states will forever vote Trump, even if Trump gets impeached? Elections don't work that way, not that your are intelligent enough to understand.
So the Republicans did not previously win in Indiana, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota and West Virginia? That's quite a news to me. Those are among the 23 seats Dems are defending. (Not counting King and Sanders.) The Republicans are defending only EIGHT seats. Other than Arizona and Nevada, they are all safe seats.
Trump people how's all that winning progressing?
Are you ashamed of your guy and his people?
Make America Great Again wrote:
Other than Arizona and Nevada, they are all safe seats.
Ah .... no.
Can you think? wrote:
Trump people how's all that winning progressing?
Are you ashamed of your guy and his people?
Just wait until the aftermath of "winning" at the 2018 midterms. The Trumpkin whining will be BIGLY EPIC.
Here's the 2018 senate breakdown:
There are 34 seats up for election.
Democrats/Independents have 25 to defend.
Republicans have 9.
Dems would need to keep ALL 25 and flip 3 of the 9.
The Dems best chances are Jeff Flake of AZ and Dean Heller of NV.
Then maybe take down Ted Cruz of TX to get a majority.
The other 6 Republican states are Alabama, Mississippi, Nebraska, Tennessee, Utah and Wyoming.
Good luck flipping them.
Democrats are defending states such as Florida, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and West Virginia, all states won by Trump.
The Democrats are not going to control the Senate any time soon.
The Republicans may even increase their majority and even have a chance at a filibuster proof 60.
The Democrats could win back the House since every single one is up for election.
But Democrats don't vote in great numbers in midterms and conservatives are more spread out through out the 435 districts.
You may need an immediate ACA repeal to piss of the voters enough to vote Dems back in.
The fact that Obamacare is not going to be repealed actually helps the Republicans, I think.
The ones that say they want it repealed aren't going to vote for a Democrat.
And the Republicans that benefit from Obamacare get to keep it and be happy, even if they say they don't want it.