Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

The information is in Spanish, but you can automatically translate it to English. Mariano García-Verdugo was the national coach for long-distance and middle-distance runners, a professor at the university of sports sciences, and holds a doctorate. You can contact him and purchase the software. He can provide support and instructions on how to perform the test and use the program.

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Test DIPER para determinar umbrales y VO2máx (estimado)

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Realizamos el test DIPER a dos atletas con una diferencia de edad de 30 años. La prueba se realiza en una pista de 400m con marcas cada 50m para ajustar el ritmo a lo marcado en la Tabla de Ritmos …

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diminishing returns

and your premise of ‘jogging around’ is a little silly

id love to jog the HM he did inside of 3 weeks of London which everyone thought was ‘suicide’

point is, the demands of the marathon are not as complicated as ppl make them out to be

the key is probably ‘when do you ACTUALLY need to be ready for the demands?’

on race day? or 8-10 weeks before?

we see ppl reach super human performances in training that simply do not translate with how the approach is being implemented from the Canova camp

unless you can sit on your A all day, double everyday, and have access to the top nutrition/labs/physios/etc, maybe, just maybe, youre not going to be able to thread that needle

furthermore, how do Ironman athletes prove theyve met the ‘demands’ of their event?

the ‘demands’ piece is probably the most overdone at this point and too cute by half in most instances

I have wondered about that aspect. Is it really better to be sedentary when not training, or having lots of low intensity movement?

probably depends on what training you did that day

I was curious myself, so did a bunch of searching on Aliexpress last night for us freedom folks. They were very difficult to find (couldn't find them by name), but I think this is the Dynafish people keep talking about. Although I found multiple listings that varied in price (with limited sizes), so not sure which listings are accurate or reliable. The second one lists it as a Kung fu, Karate shoe, lol, but has the cheapest price.

Around $187 with shipping though which is right up there with Western shoes. They must be cheaper for Brits, or Western shoes are more expensive for Brits. It's easy to find deals on Western shoes as an American. I used 25% off medical discount for Asics & pre ordered the Megablast in Aug for $169, then got free shipping as a free Asics One member. EVO SL are going for $100 some places to clear stock for the new woven uppers. AP4 & Alphafly 3 have been going on sale to clear stock for new versions. But perhaps the Dynafish are the latest & greatest & worth the extra $. I'd be curious about their durability though as someone who takes all their shoes to 500-600+ miles.

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I've been thinking, what's the upper limit of sustainability with this method provided you double? Let's say someone gets to 10 hours a week after like 3 -5 years of training like this. If they keep to maybe a 80/20 ratio, It would probably look like 40 mins per session plus 30 mins of warm ups and cool downs, and then 95 - 100 mins of easy doubles the other 4 days.

Would 40 mins per session 3 days a week be too much in this scenario? Provided the person trying this is in at least sub 15 shape, it would average out to 130 - 150km a week which should be plenty for sub elite guys. I think Paul Luttrell's the only person on this method who's running that much so I'll be curious to hear his thoughts most of all

You can find them on Taobao agents for almost exactly $100, probably comes down to about $110 including shipping if you buy 4-5 shoes in bulk. But even at $187 they're worth it when a Megablast regularly sells for $230 or whatever.

Not sure what you mean mentioning the Evo SL and AP4; they aren't in the same category.

I had wondered about that too, as I was running 9-10 hours per week before I started NSM and my fitness initially took a bit off a nosedive. The maximum that felt feasible to me on a regular basis was 4x10, 6x6 and maybe 12x3 but on the slower end of what's usually being suggested as bLa almost always ended up in the 3.0-3.5 otherwise -- a little too high for my taste.

Currently considering going full Norwegian but not sure yet about those double threshold days. Feels like a hard switch to make.

Personally I think people overstate how much easier it is than a “traditional” marathon block. The only thing that really makes it easier imo is that the workouts are broken up rather than continuous. You still do 3 x 5k or more every week, which is 9 miles at ~MP, plus 2 other workouts and a long run in the 18-20 mile range. The last 3 weeks especially were bigger than any marathon prep I’d done before. I mean 5 x 5k is the hardest marathon workout I’ve ever done and I did this for my 7th marathon. I guess what I’m saying is I think it’s still very hard, hard enough to prepare you for the demands of the marathon. Honestly probably the biggest difference maker is just the extreme emphasis on taking the easy days easy, where a lot of marathoners fall into the trap of running all their easy days steady.

What I can't really wrap my head around is why people still question the method instead of just trying it when they are supposedly curious about it. Like, did everyone spend weeks finding flaws with Pfitz or Daniels or Hanson before they started it?

Just give it a shot, either it works or it doesn't -- same as any other plan. What's the worst that can happen, you running a slower marathon? Nobody cares.

I think I've still got a fair bit of room to increase the sub-T volume because I haven't stuck to an 80/20 split. Probably closer to 85/15.

I'll be trying to increase the ramp rate on the Sub-T volume now though - but you make a good point.

Recovering from 3 x 40 minute workouts a week looks infinitely more difficult than 3 x 30 minutes.

Double threshold may be a logical progression (for those that can fit it into their schedule). I'd probably opt to do that as the next step - once I'm getting up to 36 minutes of work in a session, rather than pushing all the way up to 40 minutes.

There's also the option that maybe once you've built the "aerobic house" (to use a Canova phrase) that you may actually be able to cash in on some intensity. If I did do that, I'd certainly periodize it and use it sparingly, but it's a possibility.

It’s worth reminding ourselves that, if we are training for a race, the goal is not to “get fit”, the goal is to express whatever fitness we have on race day. So yes, I think staying fresh so we have any chance of going big is essential, especially for the marathon.

If you watch/listen to Sirpoc on the couple of podcasts/videos, there are a few points that you can tell he feels VERY strongly about. People being overtrained by race day, underfuelled, and pacing. This method addresses these issues.

Actually the NSM is more similar to traditional training that all marathoners did before a bunch of Italian coaches (and their doctors) came to Kenya and started to implement the methods that are common now.

You see all the time how even the best Americans marathoners do these insane workouts in their buildup, and still they struggle to run faster than people did 40 or 50 years ago.

I haven't listened to the pods , I will have to find them. But absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, those three things are the biggest thing people get wrong for a marathon. Even up to sub elite level and guys in the 2:15-30 range. It's always baffled me. You see guys go out at half pace for the first few miles and wonder why "it just didn't all click".

I see NSM as old school smart training, with some modern twists, like using the pmc to guide our own training. The big difference to me is it's explained and laid out in a way that makes it easy access. That's it's simplicity and genius all at once.

Sirpoc has zero credibility. That's the difference. You guys are talking about pitfz, versus Daniels or Hanson, versus a construction worker with no qualifications who post randomly on Letsrun.

Why on earth would anyone be giving credibility to someone like that over greats of the coaching world?

The results speak for themselves, nothing more to add.