Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

seattle prattle wrote:

From Harvard Health Publication, "Covid-19 Basics"

How does coronavirus spread?

The coronavirus is thought to spread mainly from person to person. This can happen between people who are in close contact with one another. Droplets that are produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes may land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby, or possibly be inhaled into their lungs.

Coronavirus can also spread from contact with infected surfaces or objects. For example, a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes.

there's no doubt the disease *can* be passed through air.

but from what i've read that just doesn't happen much.

examples of infected people being in large crowds of people in rooms and no one else getting it, for example.

I've heard examples of large church congregations getting it and others. Stay at home directives and social distancing orders are there for a reason so I would hate to see the importance of the role they play diminished.

A lot is not know conclusively about this, so best to error on the side of caution.

I don't know what you have been reading, but you seem to have it backwards. The main transmission is through the air, according to the CDC:

agip wrote:

it's 100% clear that there are clusters of pain here. Look at deaths or cases per million. There is enormous variability. From 200 per million in Spain and Italy to 8 in Norway, 10 in Germany etc.

I don't see a reason why stats should ignore that variability. Tell me why I should ignore that variability.

They might all come to be the same 200 per million, god forbid, but tracking them separately would at least tell us of that convergence.

You really aren't making any sense to me.

If you are going to group then, those groupings should be accurate.

Switzerland, Belgium, and the Netherlands are extremely similar to France in terms of both cases and deaths per million.

Yet, you include France and not the other ones.

So accuracy is not guiding those decisions...you are pushing a narrative.

agip wrote:

perfect example of people trying to pigeonhole me and project things onto me that I don't say or believe.

I'm looking at numbers and trying to see what story they tell.

There is a very clear cluster in Italy/France/Spain and so I am following it.

I have recently begun tracking the US and may track the UK as they become clusters.

Following this stuff tells us what is going on. I'm not saying anyone is in the clear.

On the other hand, everyone wants to know why Germany is having such success even as its neighbors suffer far worse.

There is not a very clear cluster. This has been pointed out repeatedly. It is you that is telling a narrative.

Agip is never wrong.

seattle prattle wrote:

agip wrote:

my understanding is that almost all of the transferring of the virus (outside hospitals) is from touching contaminated surfaces and then touching your face.

Sure there is some 'virus in the air' transmittal but from what I've read that's probably very rare.

Much of the social distancing policy is to keep contaminated people from touching stuff.

In hospitals things are different because of the concentration of virus.

infected people, some of which do not even know they are infected and show no symptoms, breathe out droplets and those can be ingested by others or can contaminate surfaces. It is possible to breathe in those droplets without ever touching anything, so i am lead to believe. Social distancing helps minimize that possibility. If anyone with more expertise would like to comment, please do so.

Don't correct agip. Agip is never wrong.

agip wrote:

there's no doubt the disease *can* be passed through air.

but from what i've read that just doesn't happen much.

examples of infected people being in large crowds of people in rooms and no one else getting it, for example.

You post crap like this and then are surprised when people call you a disinformation troll?

Just stop it.

moderates suck wrote:

Don't correct agip. Agip is never wrong.

I'll have discussions with whomever i chose. I have had a very good exchanges with Agip dating back for quite a while.

This is why I suggest following other countries like France & Germany (including of course reliable leadership). They face the same situation & are moving forward. Saves a lot of time & confusion.

World Health Organization lists surfaces first:

People can catch COVID-19 from others who have the virus. The disease can spread from person to person through small droplets from the nose or mouth which are spread when a person with COVID-19 coughs or exhales. These droplets land on objects and surfaces around the person. Other people then catch COVID-19 by touching these objects or surfaces, then touching their eyes, nose or mouth. People can also catch COVID-19 if they breathe in droplets from a person with COVID-19 who coughs out or exhales droplets. This is why it is important to stay more than 1 meter (3 feet) away from a person who is sick.

Dr David Price of Weill Cornell:

Price went on say the virus is primarily transmitted by touching someone who has the virus and then touching your face.

"The ways that you get this is the transmission of the virus almost exclusively from your hands to your face, from your hands to your face and inside your eyes, into your nose or into your mouth," Price explained. "So there's a lot of talk about contact or getting it through contacts, hands to face."

The doctor also addressed the idea that the virus is transmitted by "long sustained contact" or through the air.

"There's also a small thought that it can be aerosolized, that it can kind of exist a little bit in the air," Price said. "The thought at this point is that you actually have to have very long sustained contact with someone. And I'm talking about over 15 to 30 minutes in an unprotected environment, meaning you're in a very closed room without any type of mask for you to get it that way."

agip wrote:

World Health Organization lists surfaces first:

People can catch COVID-19 from others who have the virus. The disease can spread from person to person through small droplets from the nose or mouth which are spread when a person with COVID-19 coughs or exhales. These droplets land on objects and surfaces around the person. Other people then catch COVID-19 by touching these objects or surfaces, then touching their eyes, nose or mouth. People can also catch COVID-19 if they breathe in droplets from a person with COVID-19 who coughs out or exhales droplets. This is why it is important to stay more than 1 meter (3 feet) away from a person who is sick.

Agip, i put in bold font the part that clearly indicates there is reason that solely washing hands and not touching one's face is not all that needs to be done, as you previously indicated At this point i am making the point for the benefit of others who should not be mislead.

This is important and people's health is at stake.

sure

I don't think we are disagreeing much.

I'd just emphasize that handwashing is probably being underemphasized a prevention.

Social distancing is the main weapon when I think handwashing should be pushed much harder.

Agip doesn't care if he spreads disinformation and it kills people. Being right is more important.

agip wrote:

seattle prattle wrote:

Agip, i put in bold font the part that clearly indicates there is reason that solely washing hands and not touching one's face is not all that needs to be done, as you previously indicated At this point i am making the point for the benefit of others who should not be mislead.

This is important and people's health is at stake.

sure

I don't think we are disagreeing much.

I'd just emphasize that handwashing is probably being underemphasized a prevention.

Social distancing is the main weapon when I think handwashing should be pushed much harder.

Understood, there, Agip.

The reality is that there is still a lot that isn't known about this virus and how it is transmitted, and policy is changing as we speak. Some areas being discussed now is the difference between droplets and aerosol, whether masks are needed, what type of masks work and don't work, and other things.

Be safe and looking forward to when this is behind us. THat will be sooner if we take the hard measures necessary now and get past it that much sooner, imo.

seattle prattle wrote:

agip wrote:

sure

I don't think we are disagreeing much.

I'd just emphasize that handwashing is probably being underemphasized a prevention.

Social distancing is the main weapon when I think handwashing should be pushed much harder.

Understood, there, Agip.

The reality is that there is still a lot that isn't known about this virus and how it is transmitted, and policy is changing as we speak. Some areas being discussed now is the difference between droplets and aerosol, whether masks are needed, what type of masks work and don't work, and other things.

Be safe and looking forward to when this is behind us. THat will be sooner if we take the hard measures necessary now and get past it that much sooner, imo.

cheers, good luck to you and yours.

agip wrote:

World Health Organization lists surfaces first:

People can catch COVID-19 from others who have the virus. The disease can spread from person to person through small droplets from the nose or mouth which are spread when a person with COVID-19 coughs or exhales. These droplets land on objects and surfaces around the person. Other people then catch COVID-19 by touching these objects or surfaces, then touching their eyes, nose or mouth. People can also catch COVID-19 if they breathe in droplets from a person with COVID-19 who coughs out or exhales droplets. This is why it is important to stay more than 1 meter (3 feet) away from a person who is sick.

That WHO post does not put them in order of transmissibility. It only mentions surfaces first in the paragraph.

The CDC explicitly says that the primary way to catch it is through breathing the droplets. The CDC also explicitly says that touching surfaces is not the main way coronavirus spreads.

Seriously? You are quoting an episode of Watter's World from Fox News.

dude is an infectious disease of the lungs specialist at one of the great hospitals of the world.