"You are the quintessential example of what conservatives blame liberals for, why I long stopped identifying with the liberal label. Too shrill, not oriented in pragmatics, and caricaturing people with morally and intellectually honestly held belief systems."(quote)
You don't need to be caricatured - you do it all by yourself.
So you’re arguing for abortions to be ok up until week 8-12? That’s when neurological impulses begin in the brain. 80% of voters agree with restricting abortion after the first trimester, so you’re right in line with the majority.
The difference in a brain dead adult is that the potential for that person is over, unfortunately. Due to trauma or unfortunate circumstances, their brain has failed them. However, for a life inside the womb things are just beginning.
You’re snuffing out a unique life before it even has the chance to realize it’s potential when you abort a baby. that’s quite a bit different than a brain dead person dying.
I work in healthcare as well. And this is why whenever a pregnant woman suffers any sort of trauma, such as a car accident, her first concern is her baby. Not her “clump of cells”, her baby.
All of the “potential” stuff is just emotion. Sperm and eggs have potential too, so do stem cells. They have not yet reached to universally recognized standard of human life. Nobody is being forced to terminate a pregnancy they want to keep it going, or being told not to be protective of their clump of cells. I am arguing for a rationale biological standard for when the clump might have reached a point of having rights as a living human under the law. There are multiple posters arguing that fertilized eggs and embryos have rights equal too, or in fact superseding, the rights of the mother, and I think this is nonsense based on an established definition of human life.
All this “established definition” is nonsense that you keep prattling about because it’s established in your head, that’s it. Even your own medical community does not have any consensus on life beginning with brain stem activity, only the ending of it.
The problem is not one of a biological standard. It’s a political one, one that’s above your pay grade. Those “emotional” voters will make the decision for you.
One of the most humorous parts of this thread is an American pointing the finger at others over racism and flaws in their democracy. You keep forgetting - in this also, you lead the world.
Stop with the moral outrage. No one cares, that tactic is overplayed and ineffective. China is also the leading nation as far as racism and oppression, let’s be honest.
But to get back to the issue at hand, did you know that the lawyer in the Dobb’s case argued that the Supreme Court had only two options: strike down roe or uphold roe. John Roberts wanted a middle ground compromise. It appears Biden’s team overplayed their hand, knowing that the court leaned conservative. They didn’t give them the option to compromise, so now roe is dead. Sounds like progressives need to blame incompetent lawyers.
So you're a scientist? Is that a bit like Dr Mengele was a doctor?
The left has “scientist” who don’t follow science. I don’t put much stock in anyone’s online credentials but when a “scientist” supports abortion or is pro experimental vaccine, then we know who is probably lying about their credentials.
But it is "scientific" to take away rights women have had for nearly fifty years?
1. Should we check the menses to see if a life has been lost?
2. The zygote not implanting is no less a tragic loss than an unfertilized ovum passing. I’m not speaking about persons trying to become pregnant and struggling. But the zygote is at such an early stage of development, assuming a full term pregnancy is not desired, the termination of that development isn’t tragic. This is very distinct from a fetus much later long in development because then we’re talking about a fully fledged human being.
3. Why the qualifier? It shouldn’t matter at all the circumstances.
4. The opposition to abortion is chiefly on punishing women for having elective sex. If it’s really about “this human being will die without their womb” then why can’t the State force you to give up a kidney to someone who will die without one? All life is sacred, yes? The pro-life crowd must agree that the State has a duty to compel you to give up part of your body to preserve a life.
If you’re going to counter, “I didn’t choose to create you,” why does that matter at all? Unless the anti-abortion reasoning is about punishing women and not preserving life.
I answered all your questions and then you proceeded to repeat your questions. Idk what else you want. The organ diner argument was and still is ridiculous.
Jeff Wigand and Wise Old Man are too stupid. They keep repeating the same point or question over and over as if no one responded. Jeff Wigand in particular keeps wanting to smear menses on his face to search for zygotes, for god knows what purpose.
One of the most humorous parts of this thread is an American pointing the finger at others over racism and flaws in their democracy. You keep forgetting - in this also, you lead the world.
Stop with the moral outrage. No one cares, that tactic is overplayed and ineffective. China is also the leading nation as far as racism and oppression, let’s be honest.
But to get back to the issue at hand, did you know that the lawyer in the Dobb’s case argued that the Supreme Court had only two options: strike down roe or uphold roe. John Roberts wanted a middle ground compromise. It appears Biden’s team overplayed their hand, knowing that the court leaned conservative. They didn’t give them the option to compromise, so now roe is dead. Sounds like progressives need to blame incompetent lawyers.
What exactly was the role Biden played in the case before the SCOTUS that lead to the reversal of Roe v Wade?
Green Day frontman Billie Joe Armstrong has told fans at a concert that he intends to renounce his United States citizenship following the US Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade -- a controversial move that eliminates the federal constitutional right to abortion nationwide. During a performance as part of the band's Hella Mega tour at the London Stadium in the UK on Friday, Armstrong expressed his frustration as he told the crowd: "F**k America. I'm f***king renouncing my citizenship. I'm f**king coming here." He went on to say there's "too much f**king stupid in the world to go back to that miserable f**king excuse for a country,"
Man, don’t tease me. This is going to end up like Whoopi Goldberg and Rosie O’Donnell isn’t it? They promise to leave in a childlike tantrum and then, once their lizard brain turns off, they realize that they have it made here.
Will he also refund all the money he’s made from his tours and album sales and merchandise sales here? Didn’t think so.
My biggest problem with it all is trying to assign fault to a pregnancy. It’s basically anti-sex (the worst Christian tradition) because you can never guarantee 100% safe sex. Every contraception method has some chance of error, sometimes extremely small. If an IUD fails on a woman, it’s certainly not the woman’s fault, but that won’t hold up against these laws. Not even rape does, apparently.
Failed contraceptive measures still are the woman and the man’s fault. They both know the only safe method is abstinence. They took a risk and if that risk means pregnancy than they should have to live with it.
I agree with this position that failed contraception is on the couple. I don’t share several other beliefs of Yawn, but respect that he gets to have his belief at the voting booth.
I think the people of the state should determine whether and beyond what point the couple, both the father and mother, should have to live with the consequences of their actions or both should in joint agreement be able to terminate the pregnancy in early stages.
You guys are arguing from opposite ends of the political spectrum here. It is a divide that grows ever wider on all kinds of issues in the US and has even been characterized by violence, as we saw on Jan 6, 2021. The Right - many of you here - speak in terms of extreme animosity towards "Dems", "libs" and the "left" - which is anyone who doesn't agree with them. The differences between you are becoming irreconcilable. There couldn't be a clearer signal that you are on your way to breaking up as a nation.
You guys are arguing from opposite ends of the political spectrum here. It is a divide that grows ever wider on all kinds of issues in the US and has even been characterized by violence, as we saw on Jan 6, 2021. The Right - many of you here - speak in terms of extreme animosity towards "Dems", "libs" and the "left" - which is anyone who doesn't agree with them. The differences between you are becoming irreconcilable. There couldn't be a clearer signal that you are on your way to breaking up as a nation.
My argument on the Dobbs case, we need to get back to the actual issue at hand, is that SCOTUS made the correct decision to send the issue back to the states. The 1973 SCOTUS read a right into the constitution that didn’t exist., taking the right for individual states to decide on abortion laws.
You may disagree, but it seems “substantive due process” isn’t a legal concept that holds much water and cases decided on this concept have always been at risk.
Federalism still matters in the United States. People who live in other countries don’t quite grasp that concept, but it has worked here for centuries.
You must have not read the 14th amendment - its right there in black and white. I assume then you also think we should overturn the precedent on gay marriage, gay sex, contraception, and interracial marriage?
You must have not read the 14th amendment - its right there in black and white. I assume then you also think we should overturn the precedent on gay marriage, gay sex, contraception, and interracial marriage?
No it’s not. There’s a right to due process. No right to abortion.
I answered all your questions and then you proceeded to repeat your questions. Idk what else you want. The organ diner argument was and still is ridiculous.
Jeff Wigand and Wise Old Man are too stupid. They keep repeating the same point or question over and over as if no one responded. Jeff Wigand in particular keeps wanting to smear menses on his face to search for zygotes, for god knows what purpose.
Any human cell is human life. Otherwise you wouldn't exist. But I do wonder if you are human.
So you concede a single human cell is human life. SUCCESS. Then you clearly agree that a zygote is a life and shouldn’t be killed.
it took 40+ pages but we did it
One cell does not equal a person. I could destroy a skin cell and I have killed no one. You could else extract the DNA from that cell, implant it in an ovum and with enough time, make a new being. But the single cell isn’t a whole organism (talking about multicellular ones).
"You are the quintessential example of what conservatives blame liberals for, why I long stopped identifying with the liberal label. Too shrill, not oriented in pragmatics, and caricaturing people with morally and intellectually honestly held belief systems."(quote)
You don't need to be caricatured - you do it all by yourself.
Showing up to the Roe v Wade thread to debate mens rights is peak comedy. High IQ low EQ.
You guys are arguing from opposite ends of the political spectrum here. It is a divide that grows ever wider on all kinds of issues in the US and has even been characterized by violence, as we saw on Jan 6, 2021. The Right - many of you here - speak in terms of extreme animosity towards "Dems", "libs" and the "left" - which is anyone who doesn't agree with them. The differences between you are becoming irreconcilable. There couldn't be a clearer signal that you are on your way to breaking up as a nation.
My argument on the Dobbs case, we need to get back to the actual issue at hand, is that SCOTUS made the correct decision to send the issue back to the states. The 1973 SCOTUS read a right into the constitution that didn’t exist., taking the right for individual states to decide on abortion laws.
You may disagree, but it seems “substantive due process” isn’t a legal concept that holds much water and cases decided on this concept have always been at risk.
Federalism still matters in the United States. People who live in other countries don’t quite grasp that concept, but it has worked here for centuries.
Federalism will not accommodate your growing divisions and animosities. As it didn't in 1861. Your absorption in the fine print of a legal decision blinds you to the sheer scale of what is right in front of you.