Tom told Reinhardt and he told wesfly. They repeatedly posted it on here and that forced Rojo to get involved
Tom told Reinhardt and he told wesfly. They repeatedly posted it on here and that forced Rojo to get involved
lonesome moon wrote:
dhdj wrote:
OK but why is it worth SOMETHING? Why? If there is a legal issue here, then does anyone have legal ownership of this valuable SOMETHING? Is this clear or unclear? Tinman sounds like something that could be replaced as a name but of course I must be missing something.
What kind of question is that? Why are the names Nike or Louis Vuitton worth something? It’s the same exact concept, albeit a completely different scale, but at some point a long time ago the name Nike was worth the same that Tinman is worth today.
So the name Tinman is worth something. How much? What is your guess? It doesn’t seem like even remotely a household when over 99 pct are thinking the Wizard of Oz.
dhdj wrote:
` wrote:
It really doesn't matter what your personal feelings are towards the brand, the point is that people know what it is. It has name recognition of some kind. Re-branding is a confusing and time consuming process, so I'm sure Tinman Elite would like to avoid it at all costs.
Yeah I also know what Enron is. Name recognition is not everything.
How are you still not understanding what I am saying?
` wrote:
insta wrote:
or it may be that in the phone convo, they both agreed to keep things quiet until after the trials. and if tom and his wife did not mention it to anyone, the only conclusion he could make is that someone on TME's side leaked and caused the very first posts here. they had, after all, gone at least a few weeks without any mention. not saying this is actually what happened, but i think it would make sense that he would connect the dots that way.
basically, if somehow everyone kept quiet and somehow no one outside of the involved parties found out, i think tom believed that there was enough time for them to resolve things on their own in terms of his namesake, talking through what exactly went wrong, and for both to come out with mutual statements.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I think someone from within TME leaked it out, and ruined everything. Now Tom's pissed that this is out there, he looks like an idiot, etc...
To clarify it’s in response to this thread. Tom leaked it by believing he could trust a 16 yr old with this info
dhdj wrote:
lonesome moon wrote:
What kind of question is that? Why are the names Nike or Louis Vuitton worth something? It’s the same exact concept, albeit a completely different scale, but at some point a long time ago the name Nike was worth the same that Tinman is worth today.
So the name Tinman is worth something. How much? What is your guess? It doesn’t seem like even remotely a household when over 99 pct are thinking the Wizard of Oz.
Everyone who follows track and field even a little bit knows vaguely what "Tinman" means in this context. It's likely not worth much, but it's worth SOMETHING.
welp... wrote:
Tom told Reinhardt and he told wesfly. They repeatedly posted it on here and that forced Rojo to get involved
Source on that?
dhdj wrote:
lonesome moon wrote:
What kind of question is that? Why are the names Nike or Louis Vuitton worth something? It’s the same exact concept, albeit a completely different scale, but at some point a long time ago the name Nike was worth the same that Tinman is worth today.
So the name Tinman is worth something. How much? What is your guess? It doesn’t seem like even remotely a household when over 99 pct are thinking the Wizard of Oz.
I don’t have the faintest idea what it’s worth — but you asked earlier why it’s worth SOMETHING, and the combination of name recognition and revenue make it worth SOMETHING.
` wrote:
dhdj wrote:
Yeah I also know what Enron is. Name recognition is not everything.
How are you still not understanding what I am saying?
I am understanding that you think the name Tinman is coveted by a group of runners who do not even want the fellow who goes by Tinman coaching them? That is what I am understanding. Am I missing something?
` wrote:
welp... wrote:
Tom told Reinhardt and he told wesfly. They repeatedly posted it on here and that forced Rojo to get involved
Source on that?
It was on wesflys story prior to being on letsrun. Their relationship with Reinhardt has been developing for weeks also over IG. See the wesfly post on March 31st
dhdj wrote:
` wrote:
How are you still not understanding what I am saying?
I am understanding that you think the name Tinman is coveted by a group of runners who do not even want the fellow who goes by Tinman coaching them? That is what I am understanding. Am I missing something?
I'm not sure I can spell this out for you any more simply than this: Coach named "Tinman" agrees to coach a group of runners, they are now called "Tinman Elite". The group of runners then goes on to sell lots of T-shirts and merchandise with the "Tinman" branding on it, and lots of other runners purchase this merchandise, building a decent sized brand out of the name "Tinman". Now, the group decides to fire coach "Tinman", but, they are still calling themselves "Tinman Elite", and selling merchandise with his name on it, despite the fact that they are no longer affiliated in any way with "Tinman" the coach.
Does this make sense?
` wrote:
dhdj wrote:
I am understanding that you think the name Tinman is coveted by a group of runners who do not even want the fellow who goes by Tinman coaching them? That is what I am understanding. Am I missing something?
I'm not sure I can spell this out for you any more simply than this: Coach named "Tinman" agrees to coach a group of runners, they are now called "Tinman Elite". The group of runners then goes on to sell lots of T-shirts and merchandise with the "Tinman" branding on it, and lots of other runners purchase this merchandise, building a decent sized brand out of the name "Tinman". Now, the group decides to fire coach "Tinman", but, they are still calling themselves "Tinman Elite", and selling merchandise with his name on it, despite the fact that they are no longer affiliated in any way with "Tinman" the coach.
Does this make sense?
No.
welp... wrote:
` wrote:
Source on that?
It was on wesflys story prior to being on letsrun. Their relationship with Reinhardt has been developing for weeks also over IG. See the wesfly post on March 31st
I noticed that too, but it seems very circumstantial. There's really no reason to assume it was the kid's fault, or that he was even told.
I grasp what you’re saying but it still makes no sense. So the morons that buy the merchandise are doing it for what reason? Can you explain why? If they were buying it because of the fact that a guy named Tinman coached the runners who are selling it that makes little sense to me. However if that was the reason it no longer exists.
dhdj wrote:
I grasp what you’re saying but it still makes no sense. So the morons that buy the merchandise are doing it for what reason? Can you explain why? If they were buying it because of the fact that a guy named Tinman coached the runners who are selling it that makes little sense to me. However if that was the reason it no longer exists.
They are buying it because they think it looks good and they like the elite runners selling it. Just like you would buy a soccer or hockey jersey to wear. "Tinman" the coach has nothing to do with the merchandise, other than giving his nickname as the brand. Now the branding is tricky because "Tinman" the coach is no longer affiliated with "Tinman Elite" who are selling the merchandise. Please tell me you understand this.
` wrote:
Everyone who follows track and field even a little bit knows vaguely what "Tinman" means in this context. It's likely not worth much, but it's worth SOMETHING.
And if you also follow triathlon you'll also know that Tom took the name "Tinman" from the Tinman Triathlon, a shorter version of the Ironman Triathlon. I think the filing date for the trademark for "Tinman Triathlon" was December 12, 1994.
In terms of applications made to use "Tinman" as a trademark on its own:
April 1, 2021 for audio visual recordings;
Jan 5, 2021 for mortgage loans,
Jan 5, 2017 for non-medicated beard care preparations
Nov 10, 2015 for furniture
Oct 21 2009 for organizing sporting events
May 30, 2002 for a motorscooter
Nov 29, 1999 for some music tapes/discs/cassettes
Jan 13,1983 for some computer software
As far as I am aware Tom has never tried to trademark the name Tinman, and he certainly does not own the trademark for "Tinman Elite", nor does he own it for "Tinman Triathlon", where he took the name from. People who think he has some universal right to the name are, well, misinformed. It is not "his" name. The value of the name "Tinman" on it's own I would say is worthless. Maybe Tom should come up with a new nickname, one that nobody else has ever tried to use, and make sure to trademark it.
` wrote:
dhdj wrote:
I grasp what you’re saying but it still makes no sense. So the morons that buy the merchandise are doing it for what reason? Can you explain why? If they were buying it because of the fact that a guy named Tinman coached the runners who are selling it that makes little sense to me. However if that was the reason it no longer exists.
They are buying it because they think it looks good and they like the elite runners selling it. Just like you would buy a soccer or hockey jersey to wear. "Tinman" the coach has nothing to do with the merchandise, other than giving his nickname as the brand. Now the branding is tricky because "Tinman" the coach is no longer affiliated with "Tinman Elite" who are selling the merchandise. Please tell me you understand this.
I understood all of it from the get go but it makes no sense to me. So they buy the merchandise because they like the elite runners selling it? So the name is not the reason? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet? They could call it anything as long as it is sold by these likeable elite runners? OK problem solved.
dhdj wrote:
` wrote:
They are buying it because they think it looks good and they like the elite runners selling it. Just like you would buy a soccer or hockey jersey to wear. "Tinman" the coach has nothing to do with the merchandise, other than giving his nickname as the brand. Now the branding is tricky because "Tinman" the coach is no longer affiliated with "Tinman Elite" who are selling the merchandise. Please tell me you understand this.
I understood all of it from the get go but it makes no sense to me. So they buy the merchandise because they like the elite runners selling it? So the name is not the reason? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet? They could call it anything as long as it is sold by these likeable elite runners? OK problem solved.
No. Typically re-branding comes with a bit of confusion. People who don't follow them that closely will be confused. Eventually, I'm sure they'll be able to sell just as much, but they will take a short term hit.
They also will have to buy new merchandise, taking a loss on the current merchandise they have in stock. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
Working Stiff wrote:
iykyk wrote:
"Here is the full letter sent to Coach Schwartz from the Boulder TTC:
Dear Coach,
A lot of us were drawn to you and the idea of Tinman Track Club because we are working professionals who have unfinished stories, and we sought out a coach who had not only the knowledge to provide elite level training, but also individualized training plans in order for each of us to reach our maximum potential.
Over the last several months, without a conversation or a reduction in price, we were moved to a team training plan on Final Surge, and then ultimately had to ask you each day for the workout when our Final Surge was empty. In addition, when we reached out for the workouts the night before, you often made it seem as if it were an inconvenience and that you were too busy to provide this information to us. This resulted in two issues: first, it is difficult to mentally and physically prepare for workouts when we don’t know what we will be doing until we arrive to practice, and secondly, many team members simply stopped asking for workouts or felt as though they were walking on eggshells when they reached out.
Multiple times, we have communicated that it is challenging for the majority of the team to make it to Broomfield for workouts, when our jobs require us to be on the clock at 9 am (or prior). Due to this, for most of the fall, a lot of us missed out on being coached in person by you because we simply could not make it to Broomfield, and you were unwilling to come to Boulder. When the majority of our team, and Tinman Elite, live between Boulder and Longmont, a 30-40 minute commute one way is simply inconvenient and expensive. Furthermore, numerous people joined Tinman Track Club with the expectation to be training with a team in Boulder.
Ultimately, we feel as though we were not a priority to you; we were always falling behind Tinman Elite, your dissertation, and various other high school, junior high, and remote athletes. This is highlighted by confrontations with multiple team members when they asked for bare minimum coaching, you failing to show up to or ask about races that team members competed in throughout the fall, and forcing us to participate in your dissertation, even when it wasn’t to our benefit and quite possibly to the detriment of several team members.
This decision does not come lightly, but we are each making the decision based on our own personal best interest. We wish you the best of luck in your future coaching endeavors.
Sincerely,
Boulder TTC"
The only response to this email was "Good luck!"
I'm a lowly hobby jogger, but this list of grievances squares pretty well with my experience as a Tinman "personal coaching" client. I've said it on other threads in the past, but the feeling of any question/clarification you may have being met with sort of an annoyed tone and incomplete/partial answers was par for the course. That along with a general feeling that he wasn't giving much thought to you and probably wasn't paying too much attention. I had assumed it was probably different for his more prestigious clients but maybe not...
I experienced the exact same and got way way weaker and slower during training. A lot of the stuff he scheduled didn't make any sense like not having any long runs longer than 80 mins for a half marathon plan
So it sounds as if they are morphing into merchandise sellers who happen to run. No wonder they don’t need a coach. They need a business advisor, accountants and lawyers.
dhdj wrote:
So it sounds as if they are morphing into merchandise sellers who happen to run. No wonder they don’t need a coach. They need a business advisor, accountants and lawyers.
Now you're getting it!