Yepp, Hadd phase 1 early stage...you probably know the evolution from there with one of the LT1 pushing the pulse upwards.Many japanese marathoners train similar way after build up: 1x LT1 60-90min, 1x LT1-LT2 progressive or broken tempos @HM pace(40-60min) + easy long run + easy days between.
So we can learn a bit from them about doing LT1 + easy in building phase.That was the original question.
I’ve never tried Hadd myself, so this is just speculation and regurgitating what I’ve heard/read about. With Hadd you work up to two 60 minutes “tempos” each week. This can be two 10 mile tempos for some people. Without breaking it up into segments, a lot of people have said they found the wear and tear on the body from those two continuous 60 minute tempos to be a bit too much. Again, this is where NSA would be superior. Many pages back at this point there was reference to a “Belgian” single method that was 8-12k of work, broken-up, around LT1 done twice a week and the inclusion of strides/200s (blasphemy, I know). We did something similar to this when I was in college. One day a week was 30 minutes at around LT1, another day was 30 minutes broken-up, closer to M pace but varies depending on rep length. 90 minute long run. A day of 4-6 x 200 w/ 200m jog. We did that for an 8 week build after cross, before indoors, and it was the best indoor season any of us had. We switched to more traditional training after that, and only did that base phase once.
$100 plus at least $30 shipping, before tax (I didn't do the full order but did a rough shipping calculation). I don't see the point.
That'll only save you a few bucks compared to going to your runner owned local small business owned running shoe store, trying on a bunch of different shoes & using them on the treadmill, making sure they fit, & walking out 30 min later with a new pair to use later that day.
I just received these a couple of days ago. There's no risk here. Probably the best training shoe ever made.
I just recovered from an injury (FHL muscle injury) and now running 2 easy runs of 5-6km per week. Before the injury was running 4/5 times a week with 30-35km weekly distance.
Just calculated the easy runs are at apprx 75% of max hr. I am also doing 2 cycling Zwift sessions to add some threshold/intensity (Less strain on my muscles/joints than an extra running session.)
In the coming weeks i will re-introduce a 3rd running session.I want to slowly build up the number of weekly kilometers to prevent recurrent injury.
2 direct questions:
Would it be useful to add sub-threshold training? (to be 1 or 2 of the 3 sessions)
For example: 15-minute warmup easy run 3 x 1km or 6x 3min sub-threshold 15-minute cooldown. To avoid adding too many extra kilometers directly and then gradually expand this.
My easy runs now i am doing at appr 75% max hr (avg), according the Norwegian singles method this is too fast. Does it make much sense to do this a bit slower, so with a max of 70% hr?
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
Yepp, Hadd phase 1 early stage...you probably know the evolution from there with one of the LT1 pushing the pulse upwards.Many japanese marathoners train similar way after build up: 1x LT1 60-90min, 1x LT1-LT2 progressive or broken tempos @HM pace(40-60min) + easy long run + easy days between.
So we can learn a bit from them about doing LT1 + easy in building phase.That was the original question.
I’ve never tried Hadd myself, so this is just speculation and regurgitating what I’ve heard/read about. With Hadd you work up to two 60 minutes “tempos” each week. This can be two 10 mile tempos for some people. Without breaking it up into segments, a lot of people have said they found the wear and tear on the body from those two continuous 60 minute tempos to be a bit too much. Again, this is where NSA would be superior. Many pages back at this point there was reference to a “Belgian” single method that was 8-12k of work, broken-up, around LT1 done twice a week and the inclusion of strides/200s (blasphemy, I know). We did something similar to this when I was in college. One day a week was 30 minutes at around LT1, another day was 30 minutes broken-up, closer to M pace but varies depending on rep length. 90 minute long run. A day of 4-6 x 200 w/ 200m jog. We did that for an 8 week build after cross, before indoors, and it was the best indoor season any of us had. We switched to more traditional training after that, and only did that base phase once.
This is a common misconception about Hadd that the "tempos" were continuous. That was the end game, but the guidance was to start at 3 x 15 mins and work up to 3 x 20 mins etc.
An older poster called "Pete" probably explains it better than anyone and I would encourage people to read this page of an old, old, thread.
Hi, I read the entire (25 page) article on Hadd's approach to Distance training, and I felt I could definitely use it. Based on my PR's, my Aerobic conditioning is poor And being injured last year didn't help, and it wasn't o...
I agree and disagree. There is a factor of running economy, in running, but I also feel that is vastly overrated as well. Too many of these things come down to us as runners saying "but running is special". It probably is, but also as above we hugely overstate it's position as being unique in the aerobic training world.
I don't advocate for vo2 max workouts to be clear, but for 2x2 min faster stuff, after a threshold session, which shouldn't wear you out. e.g. 8x3 + 2x2 . Perhaps more important for beginners. Running economy is the muscles, movement, and then some neural stuff, its not all about the aerobic base.
theoretically could you even adjust based on your schedule? ie. if you do MWF 30 mins of Sub-T, but then had a week come up where your Friday was tight, you could do 35 Monday, 45 Wednesday and 15 Friday? On the shorter day you'd just do 3x5 at sub-T, 60s rest, for instance....
Just finished the book. Really is a fantastic piece and guide on how to train as a hobby jogger. You could probably use it for years to shape your own training.
As others have said, the pacing chapter alone is absolutely gold for me, as someone who has always struggled with this.
It's so funny to me that even with the book out Sirpoc still has people harassing him almost daily in the comment sections of his runs asking him the most basic questions, guess he'll never be free of us
It's so funny to me that even with the book out Sirpoc still has people harassing him almost daily in the comment sections of his runs asking him the most basic questions, guess he'll never be free of us
What makes me laugh is there is a whole thread in the last day or so on the Reddit group debating about pacing.
The book IMO , provides the best pacing guide I have ever read, in any book, legitimately ever.
If you can't pace after reading that, you will never be free of a coach and thinking for yourself. The problem is the book is an amazing self help guide to running, up there with the best. But some people STILL want to be spoon fed even more.
That's where I think a coaching business should take sirpoc on, or he could even do it himself and mop up the people who still don't want to do it themselves, or need the confirmation. It seems from reading the book he has basically "coached" people in all but name, anyway.
I think he probably set uo the book so he didn't need to answer anymore questions and disappear, but may have opened up another avenue to him by mistake. I don't NEED a coach, but as a hobby jogger with disposable income, I would actually consider having him as a coach if available.
It's so funny to me that even with the book out Sirpoc still has people harassing him almost daily in the comment sections of his runs asking him the most basic questions, guess he'll never be free of us
Like Pattinson’s Batman leading the helpless out of the flooded arena with a flare…
It's so funny to me that even with the book out Sirpoc still has people harassing him almost daily in the comment sections of his runs asking him the most basic questions, guess he'll never be free of us
What makes me laugh is there is a whole thread in the last day or so on the Reddit group debating about pacing.
The book IMO , provides the best pacing guide I have ever read, in any book, legitimately ever.
If you can't pace after reading that, you will never be free of a coach and thinking for yourself. The problem is the book is an amazing self help guide to running, up there with the best. But some people STILL want to be spoon fed even more.
That's where I think a coaching business should take sirpoc on, or he could even do it himself and mop up the people who still don't want to do it themselves, or need the confirmation. It seems from reading the book he has basically "coached" people in all but name, anyway.
I think he probably set uo the book so he didn't need to answer anymore questions and disappear, but may have opened up another avenue to him by mistake. I don't NEED a coach, but as a hobby jogger with disposable income, I would actually consider having him as a coach if available.
People want to be spoon fed everything in work and in running. People seem to be absolutely unable to connect the dots any more. Critical thinking is gone completely from todays society,
It's so funny to me that even with the book out Sirpoc still has people harassing him almost daily in the comment sections of his runs asking him the most basic questions, guess he'll never be free of us
What makes me laugh is there is a whole thread in the last day or so on the Reddit group debating about pacing.
The book IMO , provides the best pacing guide I have ever read, in any book, legitimately ever.
If you can't pace after reading that, you will never be free of a coach and thinking for yourself. The problem is the book is an amazing self help guide to running, up there with the best. But some people STILL want to be spoon fed even more.
That's where I think a coaching business should take sirpoc on, or he could even do it himself and mop up the people who still don't want to do it themselves, or need the confirmation. It seems from reading the book he has basically "coached" people in all but name, anyway.
I think he probably set uo the book so he didn't need to answer anymore questions and disappear, but may have opened up another avenue to him by mistake. I don't NEED a coach, but as a hobby jogger with disposable income, I would actually consider having him as a coach if available.
The pacing section is absolutely brilliant. It does require quite a bit of thought to implement (hence the many questions), but the tools are all there.
The key takeaways from the book in terms of racing are IMO: knowing your fitness level and then adjusting your pace mathematically based on actual race conditions (wind, elevation, temperature), rather than just going on hope.
I'm glad the stuff on pacing and racing is in the bookm whilst it maybe hasn't caught the attention like the "method", I don't think I've ever seen so many well executed races by one person. Has sirpoc EVER ran a bad race? I think the premise he seems to say in the book is it's actually as much a honed skill, as a natural talent.
I'm glad the stuff on pacing and racing is in the bookm whilst it maybe hasn't caught the attention like the "method", I don't think I've ever seen so many well executed races by one person. Has sirpoc EVER ran a bad race? I think the premise he seems to say in the book is it's actually as much a honed skill, as a natural talent.
I don’t want to sell Sirpoc short because I imagine personality has something to do with it. But if he has a history of time trialing on a bike, pacing is something you absolutely need to learn/master sooner rather than later. I imagine the bike is far less forgiving than getting giddy in the first half of a Parkrun and slowing towards the end.
I'm glad the stuff on pacing and racing is in the bookm whilst it maybe hasn't caught the attention like the "method", I don't think I've ever seen so many well executed races by one person. Has sirpoc EVER ran a bad race? I think the premise he seems to say in the book is it's actually as much a honed skill, as a natural talent.
What the repetitiveness of this method should do is give you months and months of very similar data. If you run 3 x 10 mins every Tuesday on the same course then you should have a good idea of where your fitness is.
People spend thousands on a watch, heart strap and Strava subscriptions but dont seem to have any concept of how to use the data. Its all there. The race you will run should not be a surprise.
People spend thousands on a watch, heart strap and Strava subscriptions but dont seem to have any concept of how to use the data. Its all there. The race you will run should not be a surprise.
The mistake you’ve made there is failing to take into consideration “race day magic”. You know, when you pick an arbitrary goal and go for it just because… (sarcasm)
In the book, Sirpoc mentions basing his race pace off recent sessions, like a percentage of 3 minute Rep paces. I tried it for a 5k TT and you’ll never guess what, it works significantly better than just hammering it. Shocked.
This post was edited 45 seconds after it was posted.
The key takeaways from the book in terms of racing are IMO: knowing your fitness level and then adjusting your pace mathematically based on actual race conditions (wind, elevation, temperature), rather than just going on hope.
I can’t believe that this isn’t painfully obvious. I see so many people race and think that their goal pace is something you just pick.
If you know your fitness and the race day conditions, you can easily estimate race performance with great accuracy.
There is not race day magic. Preparedness is the key.
The key takeaways from the book in terms of racing are IMO: knowing your fitness level and then adjusting your pace mathematically based on actual race conditions (wind, elevation, temperature), rather than just going on hope.
I can’t believe that this isn’t painfully obvious. I see so many people race and think that their goal pace is something you just pick.
If you know your fitness and the race day conditions, you can easily estimate race performance with great accuracy.
There is not race day magic. Preparedness is the key.
I think this method is far better at letting you know where your fitness is due to the repeated comparable sessions. It definitely shines a light on the odd sessions that is out of sync with the others and should not be relied on so much.
In the past with traditional methods, I have definitely been guilty of assuming my fitness based on sporadic hero sessions that pumped my ego, while completely ignoring the bang-average sessions that were making up the bulk of my plan. It’s just confirmation bias.
I can’t believe that this isn’t painfully obvious. I see so many people race and think that their goal pace is something you just pick.
If you know your fitness and the race day conditions, you can easily estimate race performance with great accuracy.
There is not race day magic. Preparedness is the key.
You are in the significant minority. Most people, don't have a clue. Even experienced runners. They set themselves a goal, try and run a lot of goal pace, can't, then still run goal pace. Have no chance on race day, but still run goal pace. Wonder why it didn't go well.
This is a huge cross section of hobby runners. It's also the problem with a lot of training plans, you work towards a goal that in all likelihood, was arbitrary, and there's no real way of telling if you'll make it in some random 12 week roll of the dice.
Someone posted about sirpoc's progress. 3 separate occasions he has gone 3-4 months with zero progress but didn't worry about it. That could be a whole traditional block, where it was assumed "it didn't work". Then goes on to try something else. But no, just kept going knowing the science backs up the fact he will likely just continue to get better, assuming he hasn't reached diminishing returns. Which is unlikely on this method, again not for all of us, but the vast majority.
People are just too focused on short term outcomes. If you are willing to train like this , for a year or more and stay consistent, just about everyone will improve. I saw someone moan they "only" ran 2:31 in a marathon the other day as if it was a bad thing, almost a km ahead of their previous finish. What more to people actually want? The whole thing is cleverly linked so there will be no surprises on race day, but nobody is also promising miracles.
This method is simple and effective, but also has a few more layers to it that the book has exposed. Like the fact if you train consistently, race day will not be a suprise. Whether you like the reality of that or not, is up to you. But literally EVERYTHING is in this method to make you train better, recover better, be more disciplined but also race better. The whole thing is outcome and performance focused. Having read the fantastic book, I fear without that the sport (which is better for having an out of the box thinker) would lose sirpoc. He's certainly not in it because he loves running. I also think that's refreshing, a reminder that you really don't have to love running to embrace it.
Of course there will be people who already know this, but they are in the huge minority and your average hobby jogger is unlikely to really understand this stuff, hence if you have them one training book or plan to follow, this is almost certainly the best one for most people. I think we forget how we are fighting two things:
The horrible and horrific intensity over volume boom of the early 2000s and the even worse advice you get all over social media from self appointed coaches.
I'm one of the coaches who can see how this can get my business booming, rather than putting me out of a job. The performances of my clients already have meant I'm getting more and more club mates, friends, family etc. from such people who want that extra guidance.
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