Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

I definitely think if you were completely on top of recovery and that if you did it as a ~6 week block followed by a down week, then into more traditional NSA it could potentially be a good springboard fitness wise, but the risk isn't really worth the reward imo and the point of NSA is to avoid the need for periodization as much as possible, right?

I've done base build weeks in college where it was 2 LT1 effort days in a row followed by a very easy recovery day and then just alternating for the rest of the week, but I still needed to back off slightly every 3-4 weeks or so.

I have been doing something similar for the last 2 years or so. I run in the early morning and don't seem to have energy to run after work with all the home responsibilities. I have trouble running faster repeats in the dark and cold at 5:30am, and I also seem to have a tough time recovering from hard workouts. I started doing around 25 minutes worth of approximately MP pace each run during the weekly morning runs - I only do about 4-5 miles, and just over half is "quality". I break up the quality into surges of around 1km or so, with a short walk break between. I still do a bigger workout on Saturdays and a long run of around 10 miles on Sunday with a group (at a nice easy pace). I was never very fast to begin with, but using this method I have managed to break 17 minutes again (after 8 years of not doing it). I have also managed 2 years in a row of 35:xx 10k results, but haven't run any half marathons and certainly not a full - just don't have the motivation to put in a "real" training block. I'm within 10 seconds of my all-time PB for 5k and within 20 seconds of my 10k PB, and I'm over 50 now. As I said, I never was very fast, and probably didn't reach my potential when I was younger, so that helps!

There was a thread here years ago about a hs coach who did something similar to that, wasn't called Lt 1, modifying the hard/easy approach I think. They ran moderately hard most days.

In that case why not go longer with LT1 but only every other day? Longer means 60min LT1 (building from 4x15min...3x20min..2x30min then continous).Doing easy <70% inbetween + long easy run.

There's many combinations. This was touched on by sirpoc in the book, from his cycling, about how he played around with various combinations. In general, he was roughly the same fitness, once the particular load was reached (apart from doubles where he got a "boost").

Ultimately the running pattern was settled on from his classic sweet spot cycling approach for two reasons: firstly it accumulated the best amount of load in a week, but more importantly the second reason is you never got behind the eight ball when it came to fatigue.

Here is the thing. It's been covered many times and sirpoc has said it. There's nothing magic about Subthreshold in itself. It's the balance it provides for a hobby runner or cyclist, in a short ish amount of time.

It's definitely interesting, but the debate always comes back I think to this......

Unless you have a reason for not going as close to vanilla NSM as possible, that's probably the best plan.

We have two of the top masters there are, who have just done the same thing over and over, and over some more, for years, without worrying. Cheetodust is even a killer it seems in the 1500/mile.

These things have been a wake up call (for me anyway!) when I see people scrambling around to change this, or that. I do find the LT1 controlled sessions daily interesting. 60 mins a day as above though , even every other day, sounds like a recipe for going wrong. That's a lot of impact to absorb, without a large base to carry it.

Look up Tinman and his coaching of a college runner named "Mike". I think the thread was called "no intervals success" or something like that.

Legend. As someone pointed out, it's eye opening to me that sirpoc and yourself are probably the least fiddly with trying to get cute with his original vanilla guidelines, yet you both (I would guess?) have both far exceeded your own expectations. Magness would have already had you running 12x400, long ago! Ok, that's a bit of a cheap shot. But I doubt there are many, if any coaches who would have just let this roll on. I really think that is striking.

Thanks to sirpoc for recommending Chinese shoes in the first place. I think I’ve finally found the perfect rotation after years of trying.

Easy/Long: Dynafish 2.0 (Big Catfish) – Crazy shoe. Tons of foam, comfortable and bouncy, roomy, and it looks like it should weigh a ton but is actually light AF. No idea how they do it, but compared to this, the Superblast 2 and its “competitors” feel like they’re from a different century. You could also run workouts in these, at least around M+ pace.

Workouts: Li-Ning Challenger 5 – For most people, these would also work as race shoes up to the half marathon. Lightweight, fast, and not harsh on the feet. Might wanna replace the laces, but otherwise they’re the best workout shoe I’ve ever owned.

Races: Do-Win PB Pro – The fastest shoes I’ve ever run in. I can’t compare them to the latest Pumas, but they’re definitely a step up from the MetaSpeed Sky Paris and Tokyo Paris at half the price. Not much else to say, really.

If you don’t like running easy and long in the same shoes, I would look at the BMAI Expeditionist 6.0 for easy runs. They remind me of the Novablast 1/3 but with even more bounce and cushioning - and they don’t seem to fall apart after 100 km.

Other Chinese shoes I liked: Dynafish 1.0, which is closer to the Challenger 5 than to the Dynafish 2.0. Great shoe, but not quite as fun as the Li-Nings. Also the Xtep 160x 3.5/7.0, which would probably be my pick for a full marathon.

Shoes I didn’t like: Do-Win Speedster 3.0, Knock-Off Jordan’s Plaid 1.5, BMAI Carbon Turbo 3.0. The first two are supposedly for marathons/long runs but don’t feel particularly comfortable - more harsh on the legs. The latter is super light and… that’s about it. Not sure what to use them for.

Do you have a link to the Dynafish 2.0 I can't find them. And how does their sizing compare to the Li-Nings?

I always thought of LT1 in Lydiard terms as the "3/4 effort" runs. Which are a big part of the Lydiard base but balanced with 1/4 effort runs. In some Lydiard templates you also have "steady" which could be close to LT1 too.

I think running LT1 every day would be more like Ron Clarke's training (though he also did triples!).

I also vaguely remember an American HS coach who trained athletes this way and had an article about it linked in the "training advice" section either here on the LRC main page or on the old runningwarehouse training sections, but I struggle to find it nowadays. If I remember correctly it was something like 1-minute (freedom units) off 10k pace and there was a daily mileage target for freshman/sophomore/junior/senior, maybe 3/4/5/6 basically the exact same thing every day. At the time I thought it was insane. But if you consider an easy warmup/cooldown maybe it starts looking similar to the mythical old NSA theoretical 'LT1 every day' post.

Is that you, Hadd? Thought you passed.

cssbuy.com/item-984138420559.html

Slightly longer but not enough to size down. Fit similar to the Superblast 2 for me.

Title is wrong as almost always with their weird auto translate but these are the „new“ supertrainers.

thanks. That’s what I guessed as every time I search before I was only seeing the 1.0 version

If load equals load, and there are no specific physiological adaptations
that occur only at certain intensities but not at others, could the “NSM
principle” be combined with infinite variations?
A 30‑minute sub‑threshold session (IF roughly ~0.9–0.95) has about the same TSS as:
approximately 33 min at marathon pace (slightly lower IF, but a bit longer)
approximately 38 min at a moderate intensity
approximately 42 min in Zone 2
approximately 50 min in Easy Zone 1
If that’s correct, could I substitute 3×30 min sub‑threshold sessions with
3×50 min easy sessions — for example, with a structure like 3×60 min
easy + 1 long easy + 3×80 min easy (15+50+15 instead 15+30 ST+15)?

Feel like we need a whole Chinese shoe thread at this point but I've been spot checking some of these brands, would love to try them as a value conscious guy if I could ever find some that fit me, but haven't yet. Has anyone found any of these shoes available in a US 14 / EU 48? I guess there isn't much of a market for bigfoot Chinese?

Found it: https://www.coacheseducation.com/xc/jack_farrell_july_00.php

I think this is the same thing that was also referenced by "Another giver of +1"

Yeah, didn’t want to clog up the thread with Chinese shoe talk but seeing all these „best shoe of the year“ posts and videos by shoetubers these last fees days reminded me how disingenuous it all is.

I get that not everyone wants to deal with Ali or Taobao but at least let your readers or viewers know that the option is there to get shoes as good or better at a third to half the price?!

Anyway, back to Hadd talk or whatever!

I highly doubt this. It seems unlikely that sirpoc would have gotten to the times that he did by adding 1.5 additional hours of easy running per week and removing all of the sub-T