Did he really say that? I hope not. If so, that's idiotic. What an absolute waste of time to control workout intensity and then not control easy days because it's "too boring". I don't want to come across too harsh, but it really is a ridiculous attitude and what is wrong with a lot of runners. Well it's either pure stupidity, or ego. There's no a lot in between. We all get sick, I would guess a lot of us have school age kids, but c'mon, give yourself a chance and have a look at the bigger picture.
Unlike his brothers KI is just a hobby jogger.
In one of the early episodes Jakob says to him "This is my job, so I do it. I don't understand why anyone would do this for fun".
As far as I can tell there is no big picture to look at.
He is likely doing this as escapism. Why not just let KI enjoy his training and if he under performs compared to his full potential then so be it.
Let him enjoy himself
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As a side note .. There is off course a depressed Scandinavian vibe to all of this, but if you listen closely KI (unlike other Youtube personalities) is not moaning.
His credo seems to be the equally Scandinavian "Today was s..., but I got the job done, cause that is what you're supposed to do".
Yes, exactly. I can relate. Lot of hobby joggers are so focused on wanting to improve they forget the joy part. Risk/reward, it's perfectly fine to pick an area to risk overdoing it for a little joy or a little less boredom. I do this myself & regularly analyze, sure my next race may be a little slower but at least I'm not going to plod around at a miserably slow 9 min mile pace doing a 90 min long run, which is borderline prison camp torture to me in the frigid winter where I hardly even break a sweat.
Are his easy runs even that fast? KI ran a 1:12:11 half, & he's probably in better shape now training for the marathon. If you use Lactrace, his easy pace should be around 7:36 I think. Looks like a lot of his easy runs are around 7:20. That's not that bad in my opinion. Still more controlled than about 95% of other hobby joggers I know (also elites). Kids & the constant travel he does likely has more to do with him getting sick all the time.
12:00 min mark is where his brother tells KI it's all just a hobby, just for you. Nobody cares what you run. (So might as well have fun with it all.) Then after a cut, KI says it's too boring for him to run slower & he can't motivate himself to go slower. Dang, I can relate with KI.
Yes, exactly. I can relate. Lot of hobby joggers are so focused on wanting to improve they forget the joy part. Risk/reward, it's perfectly fine to pick an area to risk overdoing it for a little joy or a little less boredom. I do this myself & regularly analyze, sure my next race may be a little slower but at least I'm not going to plod around at a miserably slow 9 min mile pace doing a 90 min long run, which is borderline prison camp torture to me in the frigid winter where I hardly even break a sweat.
Are his easy runs even that fast? KI ran a 1:12:11 half, & he's probably in better shape now training for the marathon. If you use Lactrace, his easy pace should be around 7:36 I think. Looks like a lot of his easy runs are around 7:20. That's not that bad in my opinion. Still more controlled than about 95% of other hobby joggers I know (also elites). Kids & the constant travel he does likely has more to do with him getting sick all the time.
12:00 min mark is where his brother tells KI it's all just a hobby, just for you. Nobody cares what you run. (So might as well have fun with it all.) Then after a cut, KI says it's too boring for him to run slower & he can't motivate himself to go slower. Dang, I can relate with KI.
I can relate. But I also understand it's stupid training. I've done weeks of taking 10-15s /km off my easy run, even slower at times and obviously you feel better, recover more, but you revert back to type. It's just too boring. But I fully understand that makes me stupid, because I then get annoyed when I pick up niggles, seem more prone to sickness and just in general performance is more lethargic. I also think by the way the lactrace easy pass are too fast and good to see sirpoc move away from that as the guide.
I guess it is just surprising for many people to read? As has been pointed out, hobby jogging is just hobby jogging, nothing wrong with that if you want to enjoy it and not worry about optimally trainin. But seems a bit nonsensical to put yourself through 3 sessions a week, test lactate and the rest of it to then set yourself back on your recovery days. But then again, I genuinely do the same and good to know others lack discipline like me, even if it is clearly a sub-optimal approach.
To easy to blame kids for 5 sicknesess in a year. I have a kid in daycare, 3x per week, and havent been sick even ones. Colds, coughs, ok...but almost never sick to the point Im in bed. Having kids in daycare also means your immunsystem should be stronger.
I accept all of what you say. But I also agree it's stupid. I mean, why bother testing lactate? Why control workout intensity? Why go to the track and use the pacing lights? Why do the effort of any of this if you are going to ruin the rest of it by running your easy days way too hard because it's "boring" to run the correct easy intensity?
Absolutely, it's a hobby, you can do what you want. But the rest just seems like an insane waste of time if that's your attitude towards the rest of it?
I doubt he said that, about the easy running. Or it would just make absolutely no sense to put in the effort to making sure he fits in workouts, marathon builds like this, travelling for HMs over Europe to then throw it all away because he can't be bothered to control easy running. If not throw it away, at least significantly damage the good work. Probably something lost in translation?
He said he finds running easy on the treadmill boring, whether his easy runs outside are boring at the easy pace he did not say.
Years, not sure why people see giving him so much crap. Five years ago, he was literally obese, then he slimmed down, picked up running and managed a couple of 72 minute halfs.
Does he make the most of his potential? Probably not, but like both his brothers told him in his video series: Who the hell cares whether he runs a 2:25 or a 2:35?
Besides, his lungs seem pretty shot listening to him talk. Probably got the cough a couple of times to many.
While I am sure he could have done a lot differently, kids are really the plague. When your kids hang out at kindergarden 6-7-8 hours a day with tons of other children you are bound to get every sickness under the sun. (Which means you also better watch your sleep and training intensity).
If I could slap my younger self for something, it's rolling my eyes when I heard all the parents I knew saying this. "BUt mY ImMUne syStEm iS BettER." No, I just didn't have a little petri dish hanging out with other petri dishes all day and then coming home and coughing up my nose. Wife is a doctor, too, so she brings home everything and then some from the hospital. They sniff and cough for a day, then I'm hacking a lung for two weeks. It's asinine. Sure, my sleep could use a little work, but unless I live in a hazmat suit I'm just f***ed.
Edit: Agree with those saying running easier helps. It does quite a lot. Definitely do that. Annnnnd yet, here I sniff.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
Years, not sure why people see giving him so much crap. Five years ago, he was literally obese, then he slimmed down, picked up running and managed a couple of 72 minute halfs.
Does he make the most of his potential? Probably not, but like both his brothers told him in his video series: Who the hell cares whether he runs a 2:25 or a 2:35?
Besides, his lungs seem pretty shot listening to him talk. Probably got the cough a couple of times to many.
He's making videos. He's put his training out there. He's influencing others. It's fair game IMO and perfectly reasonable to question why on earth he would bother with lactate testing, the hassle that brings, but then not bother with the fundamentals of intensity control, easy running.
He's improved massively and got from fat, to running. Nobody is saying 1:12 isn't great. But it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, just not running easy when he's gone to the trouble of everything else.
As others have pointed to the obvious, it all adds up and definitely adds to you being run down even more, when you aren't recovering from your running, when you also then pick up sickness bugs. It just seems like a very strange cycle to get stuck in and doesn't seem to be getting any better for him. He's in the classic hobby jogger cycle of boom and bust. Surely at least try slowing the easy runs down and recovering a bit more?
Years, not sure why people see giving him so much crap. Five years ago, he was literally obese, then he slimmed down, picked up running and managed a couple of 72 minute halfs.
Does he make the most of his potential? Probably not, but like both his brothers told him in his video series: Who the hell cares whether he runs a 2:25 or a 2:35?
Besides, his lungs seem pretty shot listening to him talk. Probably got the cough a couple of times to many.
He's making videos. He's put his training out there. He's influencing others. It's fair game IMO and perfectly reasonable to question why on earth he would bother with lactate testing, the hassle that brings, but then not bother with the fundamentals of intensity control, easy running.
You're right ... Training like him and only being in 2:35 shape is bad influencing
I'd dare to say that he is a stain on the world of influencers :D
You're right ... Training like him and only being in 2:35 shape is bad influencing
I'd dare to say that he is a stain on the world of influencers :D
It's a fair suggestion, for him to just try and get some better recovery in between workouts, by running easier. It's certainly not going to make the situation worse. The whole point of this thread is fatigue management. If it's just not working (he hasn't improved in a long while), why not try breaking the pattern?
I'll add my hat into the ring that since since training like this and really slowing my easy runs down, I feel more recovered in other aspects of my life, being someone also with 4 kids, wife, lots of colds going around. Seems like a pretty simple thing to just do.
Obviously that's working on the assumption he is training to get better still and not just got enjoyment. That would be a different matter.
But end of day, I suspect KI is running mostly for enjoyment/escapism and not so much to be better than others (or himself for that matter, which is SirPoc's thing)
Sure ... But then again ... Given that he is around people that might know what they are doing, so maybe there is some sort of balancing act going on?
I'm not qualified to analyze his Strava or lactate readings in detail, but maybe his subt days are less intense than those of say someone like SirPoc?
I mean, KI is close to be running a 2:24 marathon after all ... :)
I know what you are saying. I certainly don't disagree. Here is the but......
You are right, he can easily run 2:24. So he has gotten to a fantastic level. But he seems to know he is running easy days too hard, that just seems pointlessly self destructive given the cycle he's in.
It's an odd situation, in the sense that he seems smart. But he nows he's running too hard, getting into this destructive cycle and not doing anything about it. It's counter intuitivereally. That's hobby jogging and it's nice to know even those with the genetic talent I'm sure he has can make bad decisions like the rest of us!
Halfway through. Wow this is really a fantastic book. I've slowly been coming round to NSM. There's enough people I trust that have said "this is it" when it comes to hobby jogging training. So many so in fact, that it's becoming hard to ignore.
This might have sold me fully. I probably now regret waiting so long, despite reading the first 50 pages or so in real time. The book was highly recommended in running book of 2025 on Reddit, so I thought why not. This is a proper book about training and what's important. I do appreciate how it's not telling you how you "must" train or promising any miracles
Yeah, I had a similar experience and it makes more sense, the more I read it. It's training stripped back to what we actually need to know (and some more, this isn't just basic stuff, there are levels to it, depending on the readers entry point).
What I find interesting, is sirpoc himself is probably the least sold on NSM. I think on one of the podcasts he said if someone laid out a better way to train with supporting evidence, he would just jump on that. By actually being one of the least NSM 'only' disciples, he actually inadvertently makes it's strongest argument.
I assume it's sold a significant amount of copies already. It can only be a good thing for hobby joggers to find it, outside of this threads reach. I'm buying 3 copies for Christmas; for my sister who runs, my cousin and running friend of mine. It's almost exactly what they need to sit down and read, to get away from the reams of useless information they consume on places like Instagram. In strange way I almost feel duty bound to help promote it, especially as his idea of marketing is to probably sit with a much earned pint on a Friday night!
I think he even said he enjoys biking more than running...I may be wrong though.
Years, not sure why people see giving him so much crap. Five years ago, he was literally obese, then he slimmed down, picked up running and managed a couple of 72 minute halfs.
Does he make the most of his potential? Probably not, but like both his brothers told him in his video series: Who the hell cares whether he runs a 2:25 or a 2:35?
Besides, his lungs seem pretty shot listening to him talk. Probably got the cough a couple of times to many.
He's making videos. He's put his training out there. He's influencing others. It's fair game IMO and perfectly reasonable to question why on earth he would bother with lactate testing, the hassle that brings, but then not bother with the fundamentals of intensity control, easy running.
He's improved massively and got from fat, to running. Nobody is saying 1:12 isn't great. But it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, just not running easy when he's gone to the trouble of everything else.
As others have pointed to the obvious, it all adds up and definitely adds to you being run down even more, when you aren't recovering from your running, when you also then pick up sickness bugs. It just seems like a very strange cycle to get stuck in and doesn't seem to be getting any better for him. He's in the classic hobby jogger cycle of boom and bust. Surely at least try slowing the easy runs down and recovering a bit more?
His story is insane--if he went from being obese to something like 16:xx-ish/34:xx-ish/:1:12/2:40 that's encouraging. It shows that people can succeed if they put in the work. No, not everyone will get to a 1:12 half but still...
I don't want to hold myself out as any kind of expert, but in one way I am similar to KI in as much that I have young kids in nursery. They are constantly sick, especially in the winter.
However, my anecdotal experience (sample size of one etc) is that since I stopped overdoing my easy runs and putting ego aside, and adhering to the 70% cap on easy runs, I've been sick less frequently and less severely.
I can't prove it but I reckon there is something to running truly easy and therefore reducing that cumulative fatigue, which allows the body to better deal with infections versus overcooking easy days and always being on a bit of a hole.
Obviously now I've said this I'll get waves of sickness lasting into next year but it experience has shown this to be true so far.
I read a paper a few months back that linked overtraining to getting sick (colds) more frequently. I don't have the link handy, but there's no question that being overly fatigued, whether it be from running, lack of sleep, or life stress, renders you more likely to get sick.
Hey, I read your post from around 10 months ago where you discussed breaking your PR set at 41 at age 50 with an 18:29. So inspiring. I'm curious where you are now? How have the last 10 months been?
You're right ... Training like him and only being in 2:35 shape is bad influencing
I'd dare to say that he is a stain on the world of influencers :D
It's a fair suggestion, for him to just try and get some better recovery in between workouts, by running easier. It's certainly not going to make the situation worse. The whole point of this thread is fatigue management. If it's just not working (he hasn't improved in a long while), why not try breaking the pattern?
I'll add my hat into the ring that since since training like this and really slowing my easy runs down, I feel more recovered in other aspects of my life, being someone also with 4 kids, wife, lots of colds going around. Seems like a pretty simple thing to just do.
Obviously that's working on the assumption he is training to get better still and not just got enjoyment. That would be a different matter.
Hey, I read your post from around 10 months ago where you discussed breaking your PR set at 41 at age 50 with an 18:29. So inspiring. I'm curious where you are now? How have the last 10 months been?
So I've read the book twice .. First the paperback and now the Kindle. Nice job with the kindle btw!
It's good .. Very good actually. A lot of it is here in this thread, some is not. It's all nicely put together and packaged.
In many ways the book is not what I think of, when I think NSA. Usually I think safe way to train, while on time constrained.
The book on the other hand could have the subtitle "The delicate balancing act of squeezing every single drop of training out of your 7.5 hours a week"
Seems like SirPoc is riding the razers edge between under and over training.
The endless pace tables accounting for wind, temperature and running surface do seem as too much at first glance, but it all ties together nicely .. especially once you reach the "How to pace your race" chapter.
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Love all the references.
Love that it's not preach.
Just a personal story and what went into it.
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Worth every penny but might unfortunately end a cult classic as it assumes you know what this thread is and have some knowledge about training up front. That is a good thing btw.
I'm so tired of people presenting simple concepts as wisdom .. and also have a need to spread out to a million subjects, each one full of "wisdom".
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But who knows .. Maybe we will get a glossy 2nd edition, which will ultimately rival the JD book? That would be cool!
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