Thanks Alfie. 🖐🧙♂️ The training goes great as you can see if checking some pages back in the thread . I started with about 26:30 5 k capacity and now 3 months later is in about 22:30 capacity.I'm closing in on my goal to run a sub 20 min 5 k this year.
The Dancan is a very smart and effective running method and added to that it reduce injury risk with atleast one planned day off weekly. Coach J.S 🇸🇪🧙♂️
Going down to 22:30 is easy. Going down to sub 20 will be much harder.
Well, my comment on this claim from you; Going down from 26:30 to 22:30 is not easier than going down from 22:30 to 20....when it comes to running improvement, times,effort and paces are relatively. It will need the same effort to go from 26:30 to 22:30:as it will need to go from 22:30 to 20.....the body adapts if you train where you are for the moment. It's the " Bible of running" , enough effort + enough recovery = supercompensation and improvement.🧙♂️
Today another good threshold in the belt. 10 x 3 min @ 4:45 pace per km , rest 60-90 sec back to 120 bpm.
Just finished a tasty dinner after and now prepare to go to a sports bar watching my Sweden play against Ukraine in football World Cup qualification. Will be thrilling ......⚽️ 🇸🇪 VS 🇺🇦⚽️
Going down to 22:30 is easy. Going down to sub 20 will be much harder.
Well, my comment on this claim from you; Going down from 26:30 to 22:30 is not easier than going down from 22:30 to 20....when it comes to running improvement, times,effort and paces are relatively. It will need the same effort to go from 26:30 to 22:30:as it will need to go from 22:30 to 20.....the body adapts if you train where you are for the moment. It's the " Bible of running" , enough effort + enough recovery = supercompensation and improvement.🧙♂️
i don’t think so, at first you make a lot of progress but than at some point there is almost no more gain to make.
And therefore it is harder to actually go faster. The margins are getting smaller, but hè, i’m no magician
Strange kind of training – very easy and short intervals. Your HR rate does not rise enough in 1 min and HR average would be too low. Thus, your body cannot adapt to 93-95% of HRmax that is needed for a 5K race.
Intervals should be run at a speed at least slightly higher than your target pace. If your goal is 20/5K, a typical session should be 5-6 x 1k at 3:55 per km with 2 min rest (walk). Or 8-10 x 400 at a higher pace. And a tempo run once per week at least at a HM pace (6-7 km would be OK for a 5K race). Long run is not so much important for 5K, and it could be combined with a tempo (say, 20-25 min warm-up, 25-30 min tempo and 15-20 min cool-down).
Again, as it was suggested in many posts above, do not talk big of every little thing - just run a sort of a parkrun every week or two. Run them by feel some 10-15 sec/km slower than your current goal pace and still you will have a good estimate of your current capability.
Strange kind of training – very easy and short intervals. Your HR rate does not rise enough in 1 min and HR average would be too low. Thus, your body cannot adapt to 93-95% of HRmax that is needed for a 5K race.
Intervals should be run at a speed at least slightly higher than your target pace. If your goal is 20/5K, a typical session should be 5-6 x 1k at 3:55 per km with 2 min rest (walk). Or 8-10 x 400 at a higher pace. And a tempo run once per week at least at a HM pace (6-7 km would be OK for a 5K race). Long run is not so much important for 5K, and it could be combined with a tempo (say, 20-25 min warm-up, 25-30 min tempo and 15-20 min cool-down).
Again, as it was suggested in many posts above, do not talk big of every little thing - just run a sort of a parkrun every week or two. Run them by feel some 10-15 sec/km slower than your current goal pace and still you will have a good estimate of your current capability.
Good luck!
Claimed to be in 25:00 shape at the start 3 month ago, 2 months later ran a all out 5k in 26:30, but like a lot of runners do when failing, making excuses and just said it was a controlled effort ;-) (afterwards) .
Now a 23:30, but 22:30 5k is more likely as he stated, i think a 5k tt tomorrow will be (finally) a 25:00 tt.
So he is not training for a 20:00 5k at the moment, rather 24:59 ;-)
the very short intervals are fine. they're basically 200s. but they obviously shouldn't be used as any kind of race predictor.
Yes, short intervals are fine. Back in 50's many in elite were really insane about them. E.g., an example of a typical Vladimir Kuts' ('56 Oly champ 5 and 10K) workout:
30 min warm-up
— 10 x 100 m with 100 m jog in between — 20 x 200 m, 100 m jog in between — again 10 x 100 m with 100 m jog in between 100 m pace: 12-13 sec, 200 m - 26-27 sec.
20 min cool down.
So, if intervals are short, they should be run all out. And of course, all other components (tempos, long run, fartlek) should be present too.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
the very short intervals are fine. they're basically 200s. but they obviously shouldn't be used as any kind of race predictor.
Yes, short intervals are fine. Back in 50's many in elite were really insane about them. E.g., an example of a typical Vladimir Kuts' ('56 Oly champ 5 and 10K) workout:
30 min warm-up
— 10 x 100 m with 100 m jog in between — 20 x 200 m, 100 m jog in between — again 10 x 100 m with 100 m jog in between 100 m pace: 12-13 sec, 200 m - 26-27 sec.
20 min cool down.
So, if intervals are short, they should be run all out. And of course, all other components (tempos, long run, fartlek) should be present too.
You have a good point there. 👍 But running the short interval reps all out they of course did not..
My approach to running the short maxVO paced reps around 60 sec is because that is approximately the same time the elites do them when they run e.g 20 x 400m. It's not mainly how much time every rep takes that is deciding the very good training effect , it's more the total summed up time being on that pace/ effort to stimulate the energy process and the biomechanical movement to improve the energy efficiency at that pace.
I have some years ago in chat with mr Leif-Inge Tjelta , Jakob Ingebrigtsen's physician and advicer some years ago, and he just agreed this is the way to look upon this case. So this is not something I have ' made up' on my own ...
Elites are not ' very different' to hobbyjoggers when it comes to basic anatomy/ biology, and trainingtimes / racetimes are very 'relatively' to each other , just the difference the elites are in most cases more talented for running.
Yes, short intervals are fine. Back in 50's many in elite were really insane about them. E.g., an example of a typical Vladimir Kuts' ('56 Oly champ 5 and 10K) workout:
30 min warm-up
— 10 x 100 m with 100 m jog in between — 20 x 200 m, 100 m jog in between — again 10 x 100 m with 100 m jog in between 100 m pace: 12-13 sec, 200 m - 26-27 sec.
20 min cool down.
So, if intervals are short, they should be run all out. And of course, all other components (tempos, long run, fartlek) should be present too.
You have a good point there. 👍 But running the short interval reps all out they of course did not..
My approach to running the short maxVO paced reps around 60 sec is because that is approximately the same time the elites do them when they run e.g 20 x 400m. It's not mainly how much time every rep takes that is deciding the very good training effect , it's more the total summed up time being on that pace/ effort to stimulate the energy process and the biomechanical movement to improve the energy efficiency at that pace.
I have some years ago in chat with mr Leif-Inge Tjelta , Jakob Ingebrigtsen's physician and advicer some years ago, and he just agreed this is the way to look upon this case. So this is not something I have ' made up' on my own ...
Elites are not ' very different' to hobbyjoggers when it comes to basic anatomy/ biology, and trainingtimes / racetimes are very 'relatively' to each other , just the difference the elites are in most cases more talented for running.
it is a big difference to run a 1 minute interval when it's 1/12 your race distance vs 1/25 your race distance. I see a place for it both ways, but i have to believe there needs to be a bridge at some point.
You have a good point there. 👍 But running the short interval reps all out they of course did not..
My approach to running the short maxVO paced reps around 60 sec is because that is approximately the same time the elites do them when they run e.g 20 x 400m. It's not mainly how much time every rep takes that is deciding the very good training effect , it's more the total summed up time being on that pace/ effort to stimulate the energy process and the biomechanical movement to improve the energy efficiency at that pace.
I have some years ago in chat with mr Leif-Inge Tjelta , Jakob Ingebrigtsen's physician and advicer some years ago, and he just agreed this is the way to look upon this case. So this is not something I have ' made up' on my own ...
Elites are not ' very different' to hobbyjoggers when it comes to basic anatomy/ biology, and trainingtimes / racetimes are very 'relatively' to each other , just the difference the elites are in most cases more talented for running.
it is a big difference to run a 1 minute interval when it's 1/12 your race distance vs 1/25 your race distance. I see a place for it both ways, but i have to believe there needs to be a bridge at some point.
Well, as I told it's mainly time on same relatively effort as the elites that counts most in this case.
Claimed to be in 25:00 shape at the start 3 month ago, 2 months later ran a all out 5k in 26:30, but like a lot of runners do when failing, making excuses and just said it was a controlled effort ;-) (afterwards) .
Now a 23:30, but 22:30 5k is more likely as he stated, i think a 5k tt tomorrow will be (finally) a 25:00 tt.
So he is not training for a 20:00 5k at the moment, rather 24:59 ;-)
Sorry, this is wrong. He hadn't run 23:30, only a busted 26:30.
He isn't doing a 5km tt tomorrow so won't be doing a 25.
And, to be fair to him. Yes he is attempting to train for sub 20 no matter how unlikely.
Claimed to be in 25:00 shape at the start 3 month ago, 2 months later ran a all out 5k in 26:30, but like a lot of runners do when failing, making excuses and just said it was a controlled effort ;-) (afterwards) .
Now a 23:30, but 22:30 5k is more likely as he stated, i think a 5k tt tomorrow will be (finally) a 25:00 tt.
So he is not training for a 20:00 5k at the moment, rather 24:59 ;-)
Sorry, this is wrong. He hadn't run 23:30, only a busted 26:30.
He isn't doing a 5km tt tomorrow so won't be doing a 25.
And, to be fair to him. Yes he is attempting to train for sub 20 no matter how unlikely.
Let me clarify, he stated he was in 23:30 form, but more likely in 22:30, not that he run it.
So, the 26:30, (afterwards he said) a controlled tt still stands, correct!
And on the latter part, i can agree, but my last comment was with a smile(ly) ;-)