Tom “Tinman” Schwartz and Drew Hunter/Tinman Elite have parted ways

OK but why is it worth SOMETHING? Why? If there is a legal issue here, then does anyone have legal ownership of this valuable SOMETHING? Is this clear or unclear? Tinman sounds like something that could be replaced as a name but of course I must be missing something.

` wrote:

cancel cultured wrote:

Doesn't matter and no one will care. They can rename it Purple Panda's and their merch will still sellout in two days. That had little to do with Tom. Highschool fanboys and runner bros worldwide weren't supporting because of the cool name or because of TS. TS could sell TME gear hisself now, but without the backing of drew, parsons, winter, gus, syd, etc it's not going to sell.

Seems like this incident has really damaged their brand. Look at their most recent instagram post, they're just getting absolutely flamed in the comments. Live by social media, die by social media.

We'll see if this push-back lasts.

did my previous reply get axed? or hammered?

Let me rephrase the response.

Likely half of the negative comments are from Wesfly or from burner accounts by "RunnerConnection."

Thank you. I am not mock mocking his running ability nor do I think it matters for his coaching I was simply curious. But some people seem inordinately fascinated with this whole deal and I am more curious why it is so interesting?

just speculation, but he may be implying that someone on the TME side, whether an athlete or close contact, was one (or some) of the anonymous posters prior to his wife posting.

dhdj wrote:

` wrote:

It's coveted because now it's a brand. Now, it's debatable how much that brand is actually worth (I don't think it's worth as much as many on here think it is), but it is a recognizable branding that's worth SOMETHING

OK but why is it worth SOMETHING? Why? If there is a legal issue here, then does anyone have legal ownership of this valuable SOMETHING? Is this clear or unclear? Tinman sounds like something that could be replaced as a name but of course I must be missing something.

Because it has name recognition. When you say "Tinman" that means something. Just like "Barbie" means something, or "Walmart" means something. Drew has actually trademarked the name "Tinman", so technically he has legal ownership. Which is hilarious.

dhdj wrote:

androitly speaking wrote:

Mid-level runner (35 min 10K?), UW Lacrosse I think (not sure if he ran there or went elsewhere for undergraduate). While your typical letsrunner will laugh at that (because they do sub 28:30 in their sleep, in trainers), certainly does not discount him from being a coach. However, seems like a mid-major, NAIA, or DII program would be a better fit. And that's not a knock, because we have had great coaches come from those ranks.

Thank you. I am not mock mocking his running ability nor do I think it matters for his coaching I was simply curious. But some people seem inordinately fascinated with this whole deal and I am more curious why it is so interesting?

You have too many instigating questions and posts in this thread to be above it all.

OK but when you say Tinman I think of the Wizard of Oz character and now after reading some posts on this thread I am thinking of his politics and other nonsense. So I guess something is missing for me. That is the issue with relying on a name brand: it can easily be tarnished.

` wrote:

Seems like this incident has really damaged their brand. Look at their most recent instagram post, they're just getting absolutely flamed in the comments. Live by social media, die by social media.

We'll see if this push-back lasts.

Wow, I thought you were exaggerating, but the comments are overwhelmingly negative. Admittedly, this has been entertaining to follow, but seeing the negative comments is a little sad.

TME really didn't say anything bad about Tom-especially initially. They felt it was best to go in a different direction, and so they did that. It seems they didn't handle it perfectly, but it also seems they didn't intend any malicious intent against Tom. They kept things quiet, and when basically forced to issue an initial statement to LR, they didn't really say anything bad about Tom. Then people starting inevitably speculating, and Tammy stepped into to squash some untrue claims that obviously upset her. The problem was, she made the TME guys look bad. So then TME and TTC (or those close to them) didn't have much of a choice but to actually provide the evidence that made their decision seem justified... which of course didn't make Tom look good.

At the end of the day, both Tom and TME agreed to whatever the terms were and TME decided they wanted a coaching change. Honestly, who cares what the reasons were? If you don't trust your coach is the best one for you anymore, than that's it. Other people's analysis of 'what's justified' doesn't really matter. And it's hard to say TME took advantage of Tom. He agreed to whatever he did. He weighed the pros and cons of moving, and decided to move. It's very possible he wouldn't have made the move if he'd had known this would happen, so I'm sure that's very frustrating. But TME didn't ask him to move with the intention of firing him. The whole branding thing- well, it is what it is. I think I read that Tom encouraged the team to sell merch to cover costs... so how can you get mad at TME for doing that and not paying Tom for it? Did the TME guys not listen to Tom and act immature at times? Well I'd assume so. Every freakin athlete in the world doesn't do what their coach says from time to time. And people also express themselves in ways others don't approve of. I'm sure it's frustrating, and I can see why Tammy posted stuff, but those things are also the reality of coaching- and managing those things is part of the coach-athlete relationship.

Tom isn't a bad guy either. And he's obviously had success as a coach and hopefully that will continue. This situation just didn't work out. It is what it is. Maybe this will make him an even better coach in the future. But hopefully, people can root for both the TME guys and Tom-or at least be neutral . Some of the early posts about Tom and these negative comments on Instagram are just ridiculous. I'm sure Tom doesn't want you bashing the athletes he coached, and they don't want people bashing Tom.

or it may be that in the phone convo, they both agreed to keep things quiet until after the trials. and if tom and his wife did not mention it to anyone, the only conclusion he could make is that someone on TME's side leaked and caused the very first posts here. they had, after all, gone at least a few weeks without any mention. not saying this is actually what happened, but i think it would make sense that he would connect the dots that way.

basically, if somehow everyone kept quiet and somehow no one outside of the involved parties found out, i think tom believed that there was enough time for them to resolve things on their own in terms of his namesake, talking through what exactly went wrong, and for both to come out with mutual statements.

dhdj wrote:

OK but when you say Tinman I think of the Wizard of Oz character and now after reading some posts on this thread I am thinking of his politics and other nonsense. So I guess something is missing for me. That is the issue with relying on a name brand: it can easily be tarnished.

It means something else to those aware of the sport of track and field. If you're a track fan how could you not know about Tinman Elite? That's name recognition.

insta wrote:

or it may be that in the phone convo, they both agreed to keep things quiet until after the trials. and if tom and his wife did not mention it to anyone, the only conclusion he could make is that someone on TME's side leaked and caused the very first posts here. they had, after all, gone at least a few weeks without any mention. not saying this is actually what happened, but i think it would make sense that he would connect the dots that way.

basically, if somehow everyone kept quiet and somehow no one outside of the involved parties found out, i think tom believed that there was enough time for them to resolve things on their own in terms of his namesake, talking through what exactly went wrong, and for both to come out with mutual statements.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think someone from within TME leaked it out, and ruined everything. Now Tom's pissed that this is out there, he looks like an idiot, etc...

` wrote:

dhdj wrote:

OK but when you say Tinman I think of the Wizard of Oz character and now after reading some posts on this thread I am thinking of his politics and other nonsense. So I guess something is missing for me. That is the issue with relying on a name brand: it can easily be tarnished.

It means something else to those aware of the sport of track and field. If you're a track fan how could you not know about Tinman Elite? That's name recognition.

OK but what is conjured up by the name? NOP was a name that triggers thoughts of immense success and possible shadiness and then finally scandal. Tinman doesn’t conjure thoughts of immense success for me but rather some fair national class runners. That is all. Maybe a bit like Hanson’s. Is that a brand name that is worth a lot? Maybe it is but I am rather neutral toward both names.

dhdj wrote:

` wrote:

It means something else to those aware of the sport of track and field. If you're a track fan how could you not know about Tinman Elite? That's name recognition.

OK but what is conjured up by the name? NOP was a name that triggers thoughts of immense success and possible shadiness and then finally scandal. Tinman doesn’t conjure thoughts of immense success for me but rather some fair national class runners. That is all. Maybe a bit like Hanson’s. Is that a brand name that is worth a lot? Maybe it is but I am rather neutral toward both names.

It really doesn't matter what your personal feelings are towards the brand, the point is that people know what it is. It has name recognition of some kind. Re-branding is a confusing and time consuming process, so I'm sure Tinman Elite would like to avoid it at all costs.

So because he was a 3x:00 - 10k runner he can only coach athletes in a certain division?

` wrote:

dhdj wrote:

OK but what is conjured up by the name? NOP was a name that triggers thoughts of immense success and possible shadiness and then finally scandal. Tinman doesn’t conjure thoughts of immense success for me but rather some fair national class runners. That is all. Maybe a bit like Hanson’s. Is that a brand name that is worth a lot? Maybe it is but I am rather neutral toward both names.

It really doesn't matter what your personal feelings are towards the brand, the point is that people know what it is. It has name recognition of some kind. Re-branding is a confusing and time consuming process, so I'm sure Tinman Elite would like to avoid it at all costs.

Yeah I also know what Enron is. Name recognition is not everything.

Heartless wrote:

androitly speaking wrote:

Word on Pearl Street is that he had a breakdown.

Can you imagine how absurd his rationalization of all this will be? LOL

Manic episode? Psychotic break?

Ostrich wrote:

androitly speaking wrote:

Mid-level runner (35 min 10K?), UW Lacrosse I think (not sure if he ran there or went elsewhere for undergraduate). While your typical letsrunner will laugh at that (because they do sub 28:30 in their sleep, in trainers), certainly does not discount him from being a coach. However, seems like a mid-major, NAIA, or DII program would be a better fit. And that's not a knock, because we have had great coaches come from those ranks.

So because he was a 3x:00 - 10k runner he can only coach athletes in a certain division?

That is not what he said. He did not even imply it.

dhdj wrote:

OK but why is it worth SOMETHING? Why? If there is a legal issue here, then does anyone have legal ownership of this valuable SOMETHING? Is this clear or unclear? Tinman sounds like something that could be replaced as a name but of course I must be missing something.

What kind of question is that? Why are the names Nike or Louis Vuitton worth something? It’s the same exact concept, albeit a completely different scale, but at some point a long time ago the name Nike was worth the same that Tinman is worth today.

dhdj wrote:

` wrote:

It really doesn't matter what your personal feelings are towards the brand, the point is that people know what it is. It has name recognition of some kind. Re-branding is a confusing and time consuming process, so I'm sure Tinman Elite would like to avoid it at all costs.

Yeah I also know what Enron is. Name recognition is not everything.

Yeah it’s not everything, but like you asked earlier, it’s SOMETHING.