Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Isn't advanced running totally dead these days .. I doubt you'll see anything there

Agreed!

Barring you're specifically prepping for the 800m or you're a professional runner who needs the specific sharpening phases, there really isn't a more suitable approach for your average distance runner.

One of the many interesting graphs in the book details the aerobic vs. anaerobic demands of disciplines from the 800-marathon. As most of us know, aerobic systems dominate anything in the 1500m and up, so by concurrently acknowledging the fact that your average runner is typically aerobically underdeveloped, it would make sense to prioritize this style of training for anyone eyeing those distances.

The only nuance is the repetitiveness and monotony of the program, which I'm thinking is where coaching comes in. Positive reinforcement of the right things being done and the ability to alter workouts + paces for sessions to keep things interesting for the athlete.

I’m not sure if that subreddit was ever good, but it’s effectively worthless now. A million useless race reports, overbearing moderators who aren’t even advanced runners themselves, and the tiny amount of posts that do get through are filled with comments from slow runners.

I'm a believer. I cobbled together a program using the "threshold" HR zone on my Garmin and hit my goal in a 10k a week ago. After reading through the first 70 pages I'm going to tweak it a little bit to make sure I stay in the 75-80/25-20 ratio of easy/threshold running and update my paces based on my recent race result. What surprised me the most was how easy the 10k felt despite not hitting any race pace workouts in the buildup. Based on HR I could've run faster as I averaged 158 (chest strap) and was pushing into the mid 160s on training runs.

I'd say I had success using this system, without doing any lactate or lab testing, and am looking forward to my next race!

"Tired of running the same old workouts every week? Try this one quick trick! Instead of running 10x3min. @ 6:00/mi., simply knock out 10x800m @ 3:00! Boredom averted."

I jest, but also just did this myself. Gotta say, it was kind of fun shooting for a time instead of a pace . . . even though the workout felt remarkably familiar.

In this and other places, it's often said that heart rate is highly variable, but in my case, it isn't. If we look at the data from my 10K races, my average heart rate is always 175-177 bpm. Once it stabilizes, it stays between 178 and 181 bpm. If I stay above 182 bpm for any length of time, excessive fatigue and a drop in performance will soon follow. I can show you heart rate graphs from different races, and the same pattern repeats itself in all of them. It will always be like this, regardless of the time of year, whether it's cold, hot, or humid.

To calculate my target race pace, I rely on the experience I mentioned in the previous paragraph, and I prefer to use the longer intervals as a reference. For example, if I do 3 x 10' intervals, I'll use the heart rate from the second and third intervals. For each heart rate difference between interval and competition, the speed varies by approximately 0.1 km/h, although from experience I must introduce a correction factor of 5 s/km, so if for example, the calculation gives me a prediction of 3:40/km, the correction will give me a pace of 3:45/km.

Big up page 170

Can't believe the phrase "budget Chinese gems" and AliExpress/Taobao made it into the book 🤣

Just got a copy of the book and can’t wait to finish reading it!

In June 2025, I started training with NSM have really enjoyed it. Similar to sirpoc, I plateaued around an 18 5k following traditional running plans. However, I have been running on and off for the past 15 years, mostly due to being sidelined by injuries.. in hindsight pretty much always after VO2max workouts. About 3 months into NSM, I ran a 17 flat 5k at a local parkrun.

I come from a cycling/triathlon background, so sweet spot training was very familiar to me and NSM immediately made sense from a maximal loading perspective. This way of training has been much easier on my body compared to the traditional VO2max workouts with short distance reps.

The flat weeks at 70mpw have also helped to better isolate what might be impacting my performance, whether that’s iron deficiency, biomechanical issues, bad footwear, poor sleep, illness, team sports etc.

Never thought it would happen, but I just won my first race. It was a local turkey trot and I won some nice swag lol. I’m excited to see how far this training can take me in the next 2 years before trying double threshold training.

OK. Glad you feel like you’ve had success.

Can you explain a little bit about what your training was like for the two years prior to trying this training method? Can you explain why you decided to try it (stagnation on other training? Injury-prone? Interested by hype/others’ success? Just curious about it and interested in trying something new?). And then how long did you follow it before racing? And how are you measuring success? Relative time? Was it a new PR or x seconds faster than your last race?

Found some photos from the British 5k masters championships. Looks to me like comrade sirpoc was running in the Do-Win PB Pro.

I think that was in there just to annoy Alfie, who wants to protect the thread at all costs from Chinese shoe chat (sorry Alfie, just messing, actually think you are a good poster, but you do seem to hate it!)

Yeah it's definitely the Do-win pro. Not that he's at a disadvantage. I bought my pair after his recommendation for about £74 (+30 postage but with 3 other items included) and it's without doubt the best shoe race shoe I've ever owned. Absolutely ridiculous anyone wouldn't buy them at that price. It's not just a bargain it's likely the best overall shoe.

Managed to sneak in the magic wizard as well. Tremendous stuff.

Just finished the book. What can I say? Simply fantastic.

This will be(and should be) the absolute go to for just about any semi serious or hobby jogger. It's that good.

As others have said, once you get used to the framework, sirpoc has given everyone the tools and understanding to be a bit more flexible. I think that is the best part of it: I now have a much better and broader understanding of training in general and why Subthreshold is probably the best go to, for the majority of us (up until a certain point).

The extra bits about race pacing, what really tapering is all about and the marathon section, are also really well written and detailed. He certainly doesn't make me want to run a marathon! Very realistic about the demands of it, but if i did do one, there is absolute no doubt the "sirpoc" plan would be my go to, after I've established a good amount of time with NSM vanilla.

For someone who isn't from a writing or academic background it's kind of shocking that something like this can be produced (shout-out to the editing guy and the production of the graphs). To me this shows to a wider point, if someone has a good idea in any fields, if you work hard and communicate ideas well, you can publish anything these days without having to be "in" with publishers. Which has always been a problem I think of "outsiders" breaking through.

Nice review.

But are we saying the door is open for Lexel's book now?

I can't wait to find out how to structure all 17 time trials so I can use CS/CV!

Not to clog up the thread too much with shoes chat but where do the Dynafish fit into the rotation?

For reference, I've got a couple of pairs of the Red Hare Pro for easy days, Challenger 5 for sub-t sessions (both i've really enjoyed running in and can't see me going back to western brands), and ordered the do-win for races.

Small Catfish 1.0 for ST similar to C5. Big Catfish 2.0 for Long Runs.

Brilliant!