The idea of “being born into slavery” was far from universal and in fact reached its apex with the Atlantic slave trade. As I wrote earlier, in more common practices of slavery, the slaves were often members of a defeated clan or society and their descendants integrated with the larger society over time.
You also seemed to miss that day in class when they went over contemporary critics of slavery who regarded the practice as cruel and inhumane as we do today. You seem to think that everyone was all on board with it until one day in the 19th Century that people all together said, “wait a second…”
That depends who you ask. Slavery is still happening today.
Of course the abolitionist movement was contemporary to slavery. That doesn't mean everyone agreed with them or shared their views on the morality of slavery.
I never said "everyone was on board with it".
Proponents of slavery in the south used the Bible to defend the morality of slavery.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
The people in the SS genuinely believed that the Jewish people were less than human and a pox on the world and that exterminating them was right thing to do. Justify that as being contemporary thought in 1940s Germany.
I can tell you what Henri Gregoire and Benjamin Banneker wrote to leaders in the 18th and 19th Century on the subject of slavery and abolition, but hey, what do I know. Do you know that the fact that the Americas appear nowhere in the Bible was used as justification that the “people” found in the New World were clearly not people under God’s divine intention as men and therefore any acts of brutality against them were not sinful?
It is a wild stretch to pretend that the African akonting was a banjo. We may as well say Africans invented every stringed instrument by that ridiculous standard.
Not according to the wokeass Smithsonian which states that the banjo was created from instruments of West African origin that then incorporated European musical features.
The idea of “being born into slavery” was far from universal and in fact reached its apex with the Atlantic slave trade. As I wrote earlier, in more common practices of slavery, the slaves were often members of a defeated clan or society and their descendants integrated with the larger society over time.
You also seemed to miss that day in class when they went over contemporary critics of slavery who regarded the practice as cruel and inhumane as we do today. You seem to think that everyone was all on board with it until one day in the 19th Century that people all together said, “wait a second…”
That depends who you ask. Slavery is still happening today.
Of course the abolitionist movement was contemporary to slavery. That doesn't mean everyone agreed with them or shared their views on the morality of slavery.
I never said "everyone was on board with it".
Proponents of slavery in the south used the Bible to defend the morality of slavery.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
So you think because someone pointed to the Bible as justification for their acts, that means that they had to believe that their acts were actually justified?
Did you know that slaves were given edited Bibles (removing those portions that talked about slaves achieving freedom)?
Your arguments are mostly mischaracterizations of other people's positions and answering questions that weren't answered (or not answering them at all). I think you may think that you are a deft debater, but these types of flawed arguments are obvious to all but the most weakest logicians.
That depends who you ask. Slavery is still happening today.
Of course the abolitionist movement was contemporary to slavery. That doesn't mean everyone agreed with them or shared their views on the morality of slavery.
I never said "everyone was on board with it".
Proponents of slavery in the south used the Bible to defend the morality of slavery.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
The people in the SS genuinely believed that the Jewish people were less than human and a pox on the world and that exterminating them was right thing to do. Justify that as being contemporary thought in 1940s Germany.
I can tell you what Henri Gregoire and Benjamin Banneker wrote to leaders in the 18th and 19th Century on the subject of slavery and abolition, but hey, what do I know. Do you know that the fact that the Americas appear nowhere in the Bible was used as justification that the “people” found in the New World were clearly not people under God’s divine intention as men and therefore any acts of brutality against them were not sinful?
The German people were so offended by the treatment of the Jews that they did absolutely nothing as they were all rounded up and disappeared.
How are you able to believe that people are capable of stripping and executing Jewish toddlers by the tens of thousands without batting an eye but incapable of comprehending that plenty of people in the 17 and 1800s (when slavery had existed in every culture since the dawn of time) were okay with slavery??
Plenty of the founding fathers were anti-slavery and thought it was abhorrent. But they weren't morons and they understood they couldn't get the support of the south if they tried to get rid of it.
Slavery was already illegal in most of the north before 1800.
People who rely on something are far more likely to try to justify it morally than people who don't rely on it.
If you knew anything at all about history you'd know that religion allows people to do the most horrific things to non-believers.
That depends who you ask. Slavery is still happening today.
Of course the abolitionist movement was contemporary to slavery. That doesn't mean everyone agreed with them or shared their views on the morality of slavery.
I never said "everyone was on board with it".
Proponents of slavery in the south used the Bible to defend the morality of slavery.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
So you think because someone pointed to the Bible as justification for their acts, that means that they had to believe that their acts were actually justified?
Did you know that slaves were given edited Bibles (removing those portions that talked about slaves achieving freedom)?
Your arguments are mostly mischaracterizations of other people's positions and answering questions that weren't answered (or not answering them at all). I think you may think that you are a deft debater, but these types of flawed arguments are obvious to all but the most weakest logicians.
Are you unaware that we know exactly what these people thought because they wrote it down?
You may think figuring out what people in the 1800s thought is some sort of thought experiment but in the adult world we can just read the words of those people and see directly what they thought.
"The most weakest logicians" would still run rings around you and Jeff.
Which is it, Mr Adult: is it right to judge the actions of 1940 Germany and 1800 France by modern standards or is it not?
”people who rely on something are more likely to support it” uh, yeah. That’s where principles come into play. I’ve heard people (people like DeSantis) say, “yes, slavery was bad, but we needed the labor.” It’s a lot easier to discount someone’s humanity or basic right individual autonomy when it’s inconvenient to you and that bank account to do so.
You keep calling me an ignorant SOB but it’s not like you’re bringing up anything I haven’t heard before. This may be news to you, but it is possible to encounter someone who is educated but with whom you still disagree.
Which is it, Mr Adult: is it right to judge the actions of 1940 Germany and 1800 France by modern standards or is it not?
”people who rely on something are more likely to support it” uh, yeah. That’s where principles come into play. I’ve heard people (people like DeSantis) say, “yes, slavery was bad, but we needed the labor.” It’s a lot easier to discount someone’s humanity or basic right individual autonomy when it’s inconvenient to you and that bank account to do so.
You keep calling me an ignorant SOB but it’s not like you’re bringing up anything I haven’t heard before. This may be news to you, but it is possible to encounter someone who is educated but with whom you still disagree.
That's a very naive way to look at things.
An adult can judge actions by modern standards and simultaneously be clever enough to realize that people in different eras didn't operate under the same standards.
You speak like someone who learned everything he knows about each subject on Google 2 minutes before you started typing.
It is a wild stretch to pretend that the African akonting was a banjo. We may as well say Africans invented every stringed instrument by that ridiculous standard.
Not according to the wokeass Smithsonian which states that the banjo was created from instruments of West African origin that then incorporated European musical features.
"the banjo’s creation was the result of a blending between West African and European forms. Sharing some similarities with the guitar, the best-documented form of the early banjo includes a drum-like body made out of a gourd (or sometimes a calabash) and a neck that could accommodate 4 strings—three long strings that run the full length of the instrument and one short thumb string that stops about halfway up the side of the neck. The drum-like gourd body and strings of different lengths are uniquely African, while the flat fingerboard and tuning pegs are more commonly associated with European traditions."
There was no banjo without the influence of BOTH cultures.
This is the beauty of multiculturalism. Sharing can create new things cultures wouldn't have come up with on their own.
Meanwhile, racists and morons try to lay claim to anything their preferred culture has even a fraction of a fingerprint on.
Which is it, Mr Adult: is it right to judge the actions of 1940 Germany and 1800 France by modern standards or is it not?
”people who rely on something are more likely to support it” uh, yeah. That’s where principles come into play. I’ve heard people (people like DeSantis) say, “yes, slavery was bad, but we needed the labor.” It’s a lot easier to discount someone’s humanity or basic right individual autonomy when it’s inconvenient to you and that bank account to do so.
You keep calling me an ignorant SOB but it’s not like you’re bringing up anything I haven’t heard before. This may be news to you, but it is possible to encounter someone who is educated but with whom you still disagree.
That's a very naive way to look at things.
An adult can judge actions by modern standards and simultaneously be clever enough to realize that people in different eras didn't operate under the same standards.
You speak like someone who learned everything he knows about each subject on Google 2 minutes before you started typing.
Yes, and?
The SS didn’t think of Jews as human beings. So that makes their cruelty against them…(the answer is “wrong”).
You speak like someone who is terrified of recognizing that past actions, though previously acceptable at the time because of the lack of humanity recognized between parties of different backgrounds or power status, was still unjust.
I have no idea how old are, despite your username, but I’m no novice.
An adult can judge actions by modern standards and simultaneously be clever enough to realize that people in different eras didn't operate under the same standards.
You speak like someone who learned everything he knows about each subject on Google 2 minutes before you started typing.
Yes, and?
The SS didn’t think of Jews as human beings. So that makes their cruelty against them…(the answer is “wrong”).
You speak like someone who is terrified of recognizing that past actions, though previously acceptable at the time because of the lack of humanity recognized between parties of different backgrounds or power status, was still unjust.
I have no idea how old are, despite your username, but I’m no novice.
This is clearly over your head...
If the Germans had won the war and wrote the history books the broader society would be molded to share their opinion of the Jews.
Morality is subjective.
In your naive view you think cannibal tribes really know they are being immoral and do it anyway. In the real world groups live by their own moral codes not yours.
When have I ever said slavery was just or fair?
You might not think you're a novice but your understanding of these issues is very very naive.
The SS didn’t think of Jews as human beings. So that makes their cruelty against them…(the answer is “wrong”).
You speak like someone who is terrified of recognizing that past actions, though previously acceptable at the time because of the lack of humanity recognized between parties of different backgrounds or power status, was still unjust.
I have no idea how old are, despite your username, but I’m no novice.
This is clearly over your head...
If the Germans had won the war and wrote the history books the broader society would be molded to share their opinion of the Jews.
Morality is subjective.
In your naive view you think cannibal tribes really know they are being immoral and do it anyway. In the real world groups live by their own moral codes not yours.
When have I ever said slavery was just or fair?
You might not think you're a novice but your understanding of these issues is very very naive.
You’re trolling at this point, right? All your posts are just a big joke, yes?
Within the PRC, forced abortions were right or wrong?
In the DPRK, concentration camps for family members of political dissidents are right or wrong?
They both won and exist in power today. And we know that might makes right. Within their subjective morality, are they doing anything wrong?
Are you unaware that we know exactly what these people thought because they wrote it down?
You may think figuring out what people in the 1800s thought is some sort of thought experiment but in the adult world we can just read the words of those people and see directly what they thought.
"The most weakest logicians" would still run rings around you and Jeff.
Are you unaware that people say and write things that they don't mean? Especially if the things that they say justify their behavior or is what has to be said to maintain their livelihood and social structure?
I also noticed that you avoided the issue of slaves being provided edited Bibles - deception by omission; but we should definitely assume that because they wrote something down, they really believed it!
If the Germans had won the war and wrote the history books the broader society would be molded to share their opinion of the Jews.
Morality is subjective.
In your naive view you think cannibal tribes really know they are being immoral and do it anyway. In the real world groups live by their own moral codes not yours.
When have I ever said slavery was just or fair?
You might not think you're a novice but your understanding of these issues is very very naive.
You’re trolling at this point, right? All your posts are just a big joke, yes?
Within the PRC, forced abortions were right or wrong?
In the DPRK, concentration camps for family members of political dissidents are right or wrong?
They both won and exist in power today. And we know that might makes right. Within their subjective morality, are they doing anything wrong?
It's hilarious that you think you're winning here.
Morality is subjective.
If you had any idea what that meant you wouldn't be doubling down on your absurd argument.
The cannibal question destroyed your entire argument you just aren't clever enough to realize it.
Are you unaware that we know exactly what these people thought because they wrote it down?
You may think figuring out what people in the 1800s thought is some sort of thought experiment but in the adult world we can just read the words of those people and see directly what they thought.
"The most weakest logicians" would still run rings around you and Jeff.
Are you unaware that people say and write things that they don't mean? Especially if the things that they say justify their behavior or is what has to be said to maintain their livelihood and social structure?
I also noticed that you avoided the issue of slaves being provided edited Bibles - deception by omission; but we should definitely assume that because they wrote something down, they really believed it!
Slave owners worked hard to make sure the slaves couldn't even read or write to keep them from learning ideas they didn't approve of. They did far worse than edit the Bible...
You should really read some history. People have been doing horrible things to each other forever and they always find a way to justify it.
The notion that the world is black and white and all the people who have different views than you know they're wrong and just lie about it is absolutely absurd.
From Leviticus:
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession."
There are people running around today who think the earth is 6,000 years old because they believe every word in the Bible was approved by God and must be true.
If you think there weren't people in the 17 and 1800s who felt slavery wasn't evil so long as the slaves weren't the same religion you're a fool.
Not according to the wokeass Smithsonian which states that the banjo was created from instruments of West African origin that then incorporated European musical features.
"the banjo’s creation was the result of a blending between West African and European forms. Sharing some similarities with the guitar, the best-documented form of the early banjo includes a drum-like body made out of a gourd (or sometimes a calabash) and a neck that could accommodate 4 strings—three long strings that run the full length of the instrument and one short thumb string that stops about halfway up the side of the neck. The drum-like gourd body and strings of different lengths are uniquely African, while the flat fingerboard and tuning pegs are more commonly associated with European traditions."
There was no banjo without the influence of BOTH cultures.
This is the beauty of multiculturalism. Sharing can create new things cultures wouldn't have come up with on their own.
Meanwhile, racists and morons try to lay claim to anything their preferred culture has even a fraction of a fingerprint on.
Liar....earlier you said white people invented all instruments and black people stole them.
You’re trolling at this point, right? All your posts are just a big joke, yes?
Within the PRC, forced abortions were right or wrong?
In the DPRK, concentration camps for family members of political dissidents are right or wrong?
They both won and exist in power today. And we know that might makes right. Within their subjective morality, are they doing anything wrong?
It's hilarious that you think you're winning here.
Morality is subjective.
If you had any idea what that meant you wouldn't be doubling down on your absurd argument.
The cannibal question destroyed your entire argument you just aren't clever enough to realize it.
Can you hear me laughing at seeing that you actually think that?
1. A cannibal in Papua New Guinea eats the roasted remains of a defeated enemy.
2. A soldier kills another in battle.
And this is your big Trump card? Really?
What’s next? Human sacrifices in Mesoamerica? FGM in East Africa? Capital punishment for apostasy is Saudi Arabia? Tell me what crushing moral dilemma you have that you have to wrack and destroy my little liberal brain.
"the banjo’s creation was the result of a blending between West African and European forms. Sharing some similarities with the guitar, the best-documented form of the early banjo includes a drum-like body made out of a gourd (or sometimes a calabash) and a neck that could accommodate 4 strings—three long strings that run the full length of the instrument and one short thumb string that stops about halfway up the side of the neck. The drum-like gourd body and strings of different lengths are uniquely African, while the flat fingerboard and tuning pegs are more commonly associated with European traditions."
There was no banjo without the influence of BOTH cultures.
This is the beauty of multiculturalism. Sharing can create new things cultures wouldn't have come up with on their own.
Meanwhile, racists and morons try to lay claim to anything their preferred culture has even a fraction of a fingerprint on.
Liar....earlier you said white people invented all instruments and black people stole them.
Dismissed.
The white people improved the gourd with a stick...
The 20th century music you're whining about being stolen was all played on instruments that never existed in Africa.
Let's see your African piano or violin or electric guitar or brass instruments.
It's hilarious that you think you're winning here.
Morality is subjective.
If you had any idea what that meant you wouldn't be doubling down on your absurd argument.
The cannibal question destroyed your entire argument you just aren't clever enough to realize it.
Can you hear me laughing at seeing that you actually think that?
1. A cannibal in Papua New Guinea eats the roasted remains of a defeated enemy.
2. A soldier kills another in battle.
And this is your big Trump card? Really?
What’s next? Human sacrifices in Mesoamerica? FGM in East Africa? Capital punishment for apostasy is Saudi Arabia? Tell me what crushing moral dilemma you have that you have to wrack and destroy my little liberal brain.
It's pretty funny that you don't understand what's happening.
You have absolutely no idea what the difference between objective and subjective reality are and you think you're winning... lol.
I'm sure you're pro-abortion. Please explain how it's any different for pro-abortion liberals to explain away the immorality of infanticide than it is for pro-slavery people to justify slavery.
You're just as evil as the slave owners but in your little liberal brain you think your own personal morality is pure. Just like some of them did.
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