The article was initially entiteld, "Zane Robertston!!!!" but we changed it to make it more descriptive. Here is our article on his bust and fake excuses (he said he went to a hospital for a COvid-19 vaccine but they gave him EPO instead) which points out that in 2016 he expressed frutation at the amount of doping in the sport:
I havn't said a single word about "how good" Kenyans were before 1980. I just gave statistics which clearly show thet Kenya was the most successful nation in men's track distance running in the period 1964 - 1979.
For you, they have set 2 WRs - when 10 is correct.
For you, they were slow - despite the fact they have had the best times from any nation.
For you they were losers - despite the fact they have won the most Olympic medals and totally dominated the Commonwealth Games.
Nothing is selective about the statistis which I gave - medals, records, top times.
You just don't like (better: you hate) those facts which were presented to you. But this will not change them.
So you think the only reason for Kenyan track running success in the 1970s was doping? Any confirmation for this?
They weren't as good as your selective use of statistics say they were but all that is mostly irrelevant in the context of yet another runner popped in Kenya. Kenyan doping is the real issue. If they dope in their numbers today - and they obviously do - they will have doped in the past when drugs were also available. They all come from the same country and culture.
Again and again you are claiming "my" statistics are selective. Explain what is selective when I just looked at Olympic success, world records, top times and so on. Nothing, really nothing is selective. I'm as objective as you can be.
I don't know if they were "good" back in the day. But the most successful in terms of medals, records and so on. I know, you are using your very own Armstrong-statistics, where 10 Kenyan WRs become 2, where 3 Olympic champions become 2, where 50+ Area records compared to 20+from all the 50+ other African nations combined means Kenya was "just another African country". And so on.
If we accept that the listed records and medals and so on are correct, than Kenya was the most successful men's track distance running nation.
So your confirmation of Kenyan doping in the 1970s is Kenyan doping today.
So, as I said, you have nothing to say about the article in Athletics Illustrated about the doping crisis in Kenyan running, which is the real issue with Kenyan sport. Your fixation on your data pre-1980 is circular and irrelevant and wrong.
And still nothing to say about the Athletics Illustrated article I referred to. Of course not.
You expect me to say something about an article I have not read? You should not expect others to react like you do.
I have just started to post in this thread because of your completely wrong statement of at least two Kenyan dopers per week in 2023. Now you changed to 2 per month. Is it possible that to be wrong by a factor of 5 is the norm for you?
And still nothing to say about the Athletics Illustrated article I referred to. Of course not.
You expect me to say something about an article I have not read? You should not expect others to react like you do.
I have just started to post in this thread because of your completely wrong statement of at least two Kenyan dopers per week in 2023. Now you changed to 2 per month. Is it possible that to be wrong by a factor of 5 is the norm for you?
I posted the article. It is about Kenyan doping in running. It is a disgrace to the sport - as the writer makes clear. You could easily have read the article. You choose not to.
There was yet another Kenyan runner sanctioned while this thread was being debated - and just before. The "factor" you continue to overlook is that Kenyan doping violations continue on a regular basis. Their "achievements" before 1980 - so what.
You expect me to say something about an article I have not read? You should not expect others to react like you do.
I have just started to post in this thread because of your completely wrong statement of at least two Kenyan dopers per week in 2023. Now you changed to 2 per month. Is it possible that to be wrong by a factor of 5 is the norm for you?
I posted the article. It is about Kenyan doping in running. It is a disgrace to the sport - as the writer makes clear. You could easily have read the article. You choose not to.
There was yet another Kenyan runner sanctioned while this thread was being debated - and just before. The "factor" you continue to overlook is that Kenyan doping violations continue on a regular basis. Their "achievements" before 1980 - so what.
There are millions of articles I haven't read. But I haven't chosen not to read them. I decide to read an article; I'm not specifically choosing not to read all the millions of articles out there.
No need to read an article just because you linked it.
Recently I traveled to Kenya and Tanzania, I chose these countries. I haven't decided not to go to Dominica. Can you see the difference?
Probably not.
I was in contact with you about two subjects:
1) that Kenya was the most successful nation in men's track distance running in the period 1964 - 1979. You have not said anything to this other that it's wrong - no reasoning why (the most successful nation in this period according to you was "successful" and has had "achievements". Nothing more to know about you sick person.
2) that Kenya has not at least two positives per week in 2023 as you claimed. You have now changed to two per month, so you have agreed that your initial statement was wrong.
Many Kenyans dope, that's for sure. How many compared to other leading countries? Extremely difficult question.
I posted the article. It is about Kenyan doping in running. It is a disgrace to the sport - as the writer makes clear. You could easily have read the article. You choose not to.
There was yet another Kenyan runner sanctioned while this thread was being debated - and just before. The "factor" you continue to overlook is that Kenyan doping violations continue on a regular basis. Their "achievements" before 1980 - so what.
There are millions of articles I haven't read. But I haven't chosen not to read them. I decide to read an article; I'm not specifically choosing not to read all the millions of articles out there.
No need to read an article just because you linked it.
Recently I traveled to Kenya and Tanzania, I chose these countries. I haven't decided not to go to Dominica. Can you see the difference?
Probably not.
I was in contact with you about two subjects:
1) that Kenya was the most successful nation in men's track distance running in the period 1964 - 1979. You have not said anything to this other that it's wrong - no reasoning why (the most successful nation in this period according to you was "successful" and has had "achievements". Nothing more to know about you sick person.
2) that Kenya has not at least two positives per week in 2023 as you claimed. You have now changed to two per month, so you have agreed that your initial statement was wrong.
Many Kenyans dope, that's for sure. How many compared to other leading countries? Extremely difficult question.
"Many Kenyans dope, that's for sure. How many compared to other leading countries? Extremely difficult question."(quote)
No, it isn't. Outside the only country that has been banned it is currently the worst - as Lord Coe's statements have made clear. No other country has matched their 40% of total doping positives in the sport last year.
There are millions of articles I haven't read. But I haven't chosen not to read them. I decide to read an article; I'm not specifically choosing not to read all the millions of articles out there.
No need to read an article just because you linked it.
Recently I traveled to Kenya and Tanzania, I chose these countries. I haven't decided not to go to Dominica. Can you see the difference?
Probably not.
I was in contact with you about two subjects:
1) that Kenya was the most successful nation in men's track distance running in the period 1964 - 1979. You have not said anything to this other that it's wrong - no reasoning why (the most successful nation in this period according to you was "successful" and has had "achievements". Nothing more to know about you sick person.
2) that Kenya has not at least two positives per week in 2023 as you claimed. You have now changed to two per month, so you have agreed that your initial statement was wrong.
Many Kenyans dope, that's for sure. How many compared to other leading countries? Extremely difficult question.
"Many Kenyans dope, that's for sure. How many compared to other leading countries? Extremely difficult question."(quote)
No, it isn't. Outside the only country that has been banned it is currently the worst - as Lord Coe's statements have made clear. No other country has matched their 40% of total doping positives in the sport last year.
"Many Kenyans dope, that's for sure. How many compared to other leading countries? Extremely difficult question."(quote)
No, it isn't. Outside the only country that has been banned it is currently the worst - as Lord Coe's statements have made clear. No other country has matched their 40% of total doping positives in the sport last year.
What a dumb question - but unsurprising. No one argues that other countries don't dope. The relevant point is that Kenyan doping far exceeds most other countries - indeed probably all apart from the one country that has been banned. Coe has said Kenya needs to "clean up its sport".
What a dumb question - but unsurprising. No one argues that other countries don't dope. The relevant point is that Kenyan doping far exceeds most other countries - indeed probably all apart from the one country that has been banned. Coe has said Kenya needs to "clean up its sport".
How many positives has Ethiopia had in recent years?
Looking on the no. of positives alone is the reasoning of a child. But to expect more from a person who is too stupid to search for some WRs or Olympic Golds also would be dumb.
What a dumb question - but unsurprising. No one argues that other countries don't dope. The relevant point is that Kenyan doping far exceeds most other countries - indeed probably all apart from the one country that has been banned. Coe has said Kenya needs to "clean up its sport".
How many positives has Ethiopia had in recent years?
Looking on the no. of positives alone is the reasoning of a child. But to expect more from a person who is too stupid to search for some WRs or Olympic Golds also would be dumb.
I can only come up with three Olympic golds for Kenya in 16 years before 1980, but doping positives are another story - nearly 50 in little over a year, which is almost one a week. The country you strenuously defend is a nation of patent drug cheats.
How many positives has Ethiopia had in recent years?
Looking on the no. of positives alone is the reasoning of a child. But to expect more from a person who is too stupid to search for some WRs or Olympic Golds also would be dumb.
I can only come up with three Olympic golds for Kenya in 16 years before 1980,
The country you strenuously defend is a nation of patent drug cheats.
I know that you are too stupid to search for a few Olympic Golds at three Games (just checking 15 events is waay beyond your capabilities). After we have had this issue now for some months.
I have never defended Kenya in any way.
You are by far the most terrible poster in this forum who I have met. And this includes handicapped notorious liars like Coevett.
... but doping positives are another story - nearly 50 in little over a year, which is almost one a week.
I guess it depends on what "nearly" and "almost" means, as to whether your "story" can be considered "non-fiction".
But surely you can provide the link to the data for these "nearly 50 (doping positives) in little over a year"?
Otherwise how do you figure? Do you even know what are you counting, over which "year", to arrive at "nearly 50 in little over a year"?
By my count, assuming you mean the year 2022, my most generous total, looking at ADAK and AIU websites, is 43 suspensions plus sanctions that can be linked to 2022.
At first glance, you could be forgiven thinking that 43/52 is 0.83 per week, or "almost one".
But then, in order to arrive at 43, we had to stretch backwards to count 7 violations from samples in 2021 and forward to include 3 sanctions from 2023, spanning a period of 93 weeks.
The 43 also includes 3 "whereabouts" and 2 "failure to submit samples" -- strictly speaking, not "doping positives".
Strictly counting just the "doping positives" from 2022, gives 31 over 52 weeks, or 0.59 per week. Strictly counting 38 "doping positives" over 93 weeks from mid-July 2021 through the end of April 2023 gives 0.41 per week.
I can only come up with three Olympic golds for Kenya in 16 years before 1980, ...
LOL. In 4 minutes, I could find 5 Olympic Golds for Kenya.
Good research.
5 - big deal. None of that can match nearly 140 doping positives between 2004 and 2018 - and about 40 over the last year. Kenyan athletes dope far more than they win. A cheater nation.
I can only come up with three Olympic golds for Kenya in 16 years before 1980,
The country you strenuously defend is a nation of patent drug cheats.
I know that you are too stupid to search for a few Olympic Golds at three Games (just checking 15 events is waay beyond your capabilities). After we have had this issue now for some months.
I have never defended Kenya in any way.
You are by far the most terrible poster in this forum who I have met. And this includes handicapped notorious liars like Coevett.
Your "defence" of Kenya is your constant deflection to their insignificant and irrelevant achievements before 1980, which are completely overshadowed by the disgraceful record for doping they have shown since then. I can't wait for how you might tout the achievements of the E Germans while similarly ignoring their doping record. Partial truths - like yours - are simply another form of lying. It is all you do.
This post was edited 49 seconds after it was posted.
... but doping positives are another story - nearly 50 in little over a year, which is almost one a week.
I guess it depends on what "nearly" and "almost" means, as to whether your "story" can be considered "non-fiction".
But surely you can provide the link to the data for these "nearly 50 (doping positives) in little over a year"?
Otherwise how do you figure? Do you even know what are you counting, over which "year", to arrive at "nearly 50 in little over a year"?
By my count, assuming you mean the year 2022, my most generous total, looking at ADAK and AIU websites, is 43 suspensions plus sanctions that can be linked to 2022.
At first glance, you could be forgiven thinking that 43/52 is 0.83 per week, or "almost one".
But then, in order to arrive at 43, we had to stretch backwards to count 7 violations from samples in 2021 and forward to include 3 sanctions from 2023, spanning a period of 93 weeks.
The 43 also includes 3 "whereabouts" and 2 "failure to submit samples" -- strictly speaking, not "doping positives".
Strictly counting just the "doping positives" from 2022, gives 31 over 52 weeks, or 0.59 per week. Strictly counting 38 "doping positives" over 93 weeks from mid-July 2021 through the end of April 2023 gives 0.41 per week.
It is fascinating how applying exactly the same exercise with figures reduces your IQ by the same amount.
Nothing, absolutely nothing is selective in the statistics which I listed. I looked at
- Olympic medals - Olympic top 8 placings - Commonwealth Games medals (where also NZ, UK, Australia competed) - World records - Area records - national records of the top nations in a 4 year rhythm - best times over all the distances - number of top athletes - international results of some season
No other nation has had as many Olympic medalists (7) as Kenya (despite the 76 boycott).
You call it "selective" when you just should say: I hate it.
The statistics clearly prove that Kenya indeed was the most successful nation in men's track distance running in the period 1964 - 1979. In all of the categories from above, Kenya leads, sometimes to an astonishing amount (Area records (for you: Kenya was just another African country - around 50 African records from Kenya compared to around 20 from all the other 50+ African nations combined), Commonwealth medals).
Finland has more Olympic Golds but is so far behind in any other category, that they are not a serious contender.
Now try to challenge it again, Armbraindeadstupid. Change the numbers from 10 to 2, from 4 to 2 ... (is it just some bad coincidence that you always have the numbers for Kenya lower than they are?). Or: are you just stupid or do you also mainly have bad intentions? For sure I know the answer...
A Kenyan who tests positive in 2022 has some impact on the number of medals six decades ago? Armbraindeadstupid at his best.
"The rate of doping positives is off the charts; thirty athletes have been suspended during 2022 alone.
Imagine if 30 Canadian, British, Australian, or American athletes were suspended in a 10-month stretch. For many countries, the athletics program would be decimated. Currently, there are approximately 70 athletes from Kenya serving suspensions for reasons related to anti-doping."
So, "off the charts". Just to remind them of a little of what "Athletics Illustrated" had to say.
LOL. In 4 minutes, I could find 5 Olympic Golds for Kenya.
Good research.
5 - big deal. None of that can match nearly 140 doping positives between 2004 and 2018 - and about 40 over the last year. Kenyan athletes dope far more than they win. A cheater nation.
The big deal is that you could only come up with 3.