Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

If you can feel lactate accumulate, why not use feeling as the main indicator to guide workouts and racing? Everyone is talking about lactate, HR and paces, but feeling should be the main indicator (maybe in combination with the quantitative indicators). I understand mainly relaying on lactate, HR or paces in the begging, but someone doing the same workouts week in and week out should be able to feel if the pace is correct or not. Same thing with races. I have not run a marathon, so I will not comment on it, but I legitimately do not understand how people blow up in shorter races. You should be able to feel when you're red lining after 2k of a 10k race.

This is confirmation bias. Because you understand these things, you assume others do. Look at most 5ks, 10ks, HM and fulls. So many people blow up. Most people don't understand the feeling. Hobby jogging pacing is horrific. They need safety nets in place. OK, WE GET IT, you are smart, you understand these things. The praise you are looking for. But, unfortunately for the majority of people these things aren't obvious. Of course you are also correct, after a year maybe if training like this, you are on auto pilot. But so many people can't get started on the train,because they have no idea what they are doing. Again, just because you see yourself as smarter doesn't mean everyone else has worked it out. People are not even to blame, so much social media misinformation is the problem here from guys with no clue, but have amassed big audiences.

I asked for the book for Christmas from my wife. She told me she's going to wait for an Amazon Cyber Monday sale, lol. I told her there won't be a sale, it just came out. Sure enough she said, it's 5% off right now & she bought it. I'm proven wrong once again.

Hopefully sirpoc reads this. It's a good thing, Amazon actually tends to give really well selling books a further boost by offering a discount. They will have done it without telling him and it comes out of their cut. All this tells us is the book is shifting, Amazon like the profits so are looking to shift even more and make it seem like a great deal whilst it's at the top of the charts. It's a pretty well known tactic of theirs.

This is correct. KDP is usually print on demand. When they offer 5-10% off, it usually means they have printed lots at once, to save cost as they know they will sell them, which is very unusual for a non publishing house title. I'm not sure I can remember many paperbacks self published that go #1 in many categories.

Note, although Sirpoc came first in the V40 British Masters race today, there are a number of other British V40 males who have raced this year in 14:xx.

These "safety nets" are not helping anyone understand how to think though? My biggest issue with this thread is the big focus on numbers (lactate, HR, paces) to measure something that is qualitative. I don't mind using quantitative data as a starting point when you're new, but these numbers are being used as facts. You're running your ST reps at 3:35 min/km because of lactrace pace ranges, your legs are feeling cooked, but you needed Sirpocs book to figure out you're running to fast for the conditions? Really?

And don't even get me started with 70% HRMax for easy days that every one seems to be preaching in here.

You can only beat what's in front of you, it's a championship race. If you care about times you go run in for fast evening Battersea races, where you are in groups of 15-20 even at sub 15 level, getting sucked around like Friday night.

Same course today, but obviously going to have slower times (not that 15:04 is slow). Other note, he came 1st overall, beating everyone, including the v35s. He's obviously going to run sub 15 at some point if he turns up to a faster paced race.

I can only speak for me, but I would take running a more tactical race in a group of three as it sounds it went, pocketing the race and a national title, rather than worrying about a 14:5x.

What a legend. I’m lactating.

I'm a bit confused. Are we reading the same book? Nothing in there is saying these are the exact paces. The clearly say, it's a starting point to give you the benefits of controlled training, without the hassle of lactate. Absolutely nowhere does it say the pace ranges are facts, but merely a guide to get you started and that if it feels too hard, you know that it's probably too hard.

The whole premise I got from the book (which I've just finished) is actually to use these tools, to then think for yourself long term. There's nothing about lactrace in there (that's nothing to do with sirpoc) and his paces with the adjustments are significantly slower.

In fact, he's not even saying sub threshold is the only way, or that you have to train this way, but understanding how the impact of load drives training. I'm genuinely not sure what you have read as it seems very different from my interpretation. Which is fine, no two people interpret things the same.

I am not talking about the book, but the things people write in this thread. But it is good to hear that this is the message the book is conveying.

I actually think that this method has opened up people’s minds to think more about what they are doing. As for easy, many are learning what they thought was easy was not really easy. it has also given many the self confidence to think for themselves and challenge the mainstream influencers. Seeing Steve Magness being openly challenged was a revelation to me.

70% is fine as a cap. At the end of the day , it's going to slow 90% of people down, which is the important thing. I'm an idiot and ran too fast. I stick to 70% hard cap and run the other days sub threshold and I'm faster than I've ever been. I couldn't have done that without sirpoc posting here and the book has helped that in a few further areas.

The whole point of training books is to make things understandable for people, who don't understand, and then communicate it in a way we can understand. That's what has happened here. If you have your own views, you can write your own book and it's communicated well, it's shown people will buy that as well. Training books are ways to communicate successful ideas. There's not anyone left really who can doubt this is generally speaking, a very successful idea.

People are in the vast majority happy with this thread and it's made their training better. Clearly, the book reinforces that without claiming any miracles. It offers broad guidelines, to shape your own training and understand it better, which is kind of what you are saying anyway, right?

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I was one who challenged Magness. Fwiw, I like him. But I challenged mainly because, he was pretty rigid, in the insistence of adding in things to improve it, without any real evidence and then doubled down when he was in my opinion, asked reasonable questions of debate.

Sirpoc was basically the opposite, everything the italian Stalian above is complaining about, he was saying , as in "sure, change what you want but ask yourself why you want to change it or think about how that impacts things". He hasn't really deviated much from the message of "these are roughly my views, here are how I see the facts, now make your own mind up and use that knowledge to make yourself train better if you so choose".

What's wrong with that may I ask? I used to do my easy runs too fast, but thanks to this advice, now I leave the ego at the door and just stick to not getting over mid-130s (my max is around 195).

Pretty dumb comment. Even elites sometimes blow up in distance races when running for time because the difference between PBing and dying is such a fine line. I've had some races where I felt like the pace was easy and then the fatigue hit like a hammer with less than 1k to go. Other races I felt like dying the entire time but managed to PB running consistent perfect even splits the entire way.

I suggest sharing a photo of the book cover on your strava if you appreciate the work. That's gotta be one of the ways to reach a wider audience so old mate sirproc can get pissed more often and maybe I can close the gap on him.

A survey many years ago found out 94% of all runners start the first half part of a race too fast.

I've no idea why every runner wouldn't use HR. You can review sessions and past races to see a correlation between HR and certain paces. This can help inform you on what is possible on race day.

I read about so many people who say "ignore HR on race day" and cannot believe what I read. Yes, your HR may be higher than usual but this is the same for every race you run. Review previous races and learn this.

I had one too many blowups and when I went back and reviewed it was obvious I hit 180 HR far too early in every single one. I don't necessarily run based on HR but I know that If I personally get to 178ish before halfway of a HM then I'm cooked. Why would I not use this information?