Racket wrote:
I would bet that Democrats will vote Democrat even if by some miracle Trump ends up putting out a better climate change policy.
I'm voting 100% based on climate change policy. If by some miracle Tiny put out a better policy then I would vote for Tiny. But I would have to trust that he would really try to enact such a policy. So convincing me of that would be the biggest miracle of all.
Sally Vix wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
I know republicans hate this comparison. But Nazi Germany started out as a democracy.
Hitler was extremely popular with the masses. They simply looked the other way as he committed one atrocity after another. Even before that how he gradually gained control of the government, courts and media.
No government or country is immune to losing their way. Great civilizations have dissolved into something much less.
Condundrum - have you seen how the Democratic party has lowered itself to? If you don't support late-term abortion - you are ostracized. Bernie, Pete, Warren are all for infanticide. Can you agree that this is very sick? AS bad as the Repubs might be- they don't advocate sticking forks into the brains of babies who survive botched abortions. I hope you can agree that killing viable babies is bad. REALLY REALLY BAD.
Can you please point us to a link where a Dem said they were ok with sticking a fork into the brains of a baby? Thanks
Here's a 60 minutes segment on Trump's DNC server conspiracy:
Sally Vix wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
I know republicans hate this comparison. But Nazi Germany started out as a democracy.
Hitler was extremely popular with the masses. They simply looked the other way as he committed one atrocity after another. Even before that how he gradually gained control of the government, courts and media.
No government or country is immune to losing their way. Great civilizations have dissolved into something much less.
Condundrum - have you seen how the Democratic party has lowered itself to? If you don't support late-term abortion - you are ostracized. Bernie, Pete, Warren are all for infanticide. Can you agree that this is very sick? AS bad as the Repubs might be- they don't advocate sticking forks into the brains of babies who survive botched abortions. I hope you can agree that killing viable babies is bad. REALLY REALLY BAD.
You clearly don't understand Roe v Wade, decided by the SC in 1973 and maintained through a succession of Republican administrations.
LIkewise, here's a 60 minutes segment of the devastating effects of climate change on Australia's recent wildfires:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/australia-fires-climate-change-relationship-60-minutes-2020-02-16/
Yeah, about that... wrote:
Welp, after a couple of recent mini-peaks (he was actually flirting with 44% approval), it appears that DJT is on the way back down--and his disapproval ratings are heading up.
The battle lines mostly seem to be drawn, though. Absent a (quite unlikely) stock-market crash or other clear recession signal, I seriously doubt the President will go below 40%, or above 44%. As others have observed, the only question is whose supporters will actually go to the polls and vote.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
Trump has a 45.2% approval per RCP average.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.htmlFat hurts wrote:
agip wrote:
I generally agree that green issues are going to blindside the Rs. They really don't believe people give a carp. But increasingly people do.
So ok, yeah, agreed.
BUT
The D green message will be swamped by kulturwar issues like transgender issues, gay rights, PC talk, campus politics...moms in the suburbs will shrug and say 'yeah I want a greener USA but that's in the future. RIGHT NOW I don't want my kid learning this crazy version of society from Dems in school. We'll deal with coal later.'
That's part of the appeal of Bberg. He doesn't seem to play in the crazy D culture sandbox. They think he might be normal.
I hope you are wrong, but if you are right then the human race is doomed. We've already been putting off climate action for more than 30 years.
Every year we wait makes it that much harder to fix. If we had started 30 years ago then it would all be relatively painless, just like the fix for ozone layer.
But now our backs are up against the wall and only radical change will stop catastrophe.
I have a very syndicalism view of our future. We will be considered lucky if some disease, war or mass starvation temporarily wipe out a good chunk of the population... to give us more time to start reversing this self-inflicted mess. We aren’t going to learn until it’s too late, especially not with trump-types leading nations.
Conundrum wrote:
I know republicans hate this comparison. But Nazi Germany started out as a democracy.
Hitler was extremely popular with the masses. They simply looked the other way as he committed one atrocity after another. Even before that how he gradually gained control of the government, courts and media.
No government or country is immune to losing their way. Great civilizations have dissolved into something much less.
I have not heard one strong argument that what has happened to the GOP and brainwashing of the masses (tzees) is not similar to that time.
Yosinglerxy wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
So what your feeling about a president doing that? Should our president be expected to act with as much class and dignity as a lets run poster? Or is that setting the bar too high for him?
My feeling is that both are low class.
What say you?
I say the bar has to be set highest for the leader of the nation, don’t you think?
agip wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
I hope you are wrong, but if you are right then the human race is doomed. We've already been putting off climate action for more than 30 years.
Every year we wait makes it that much harder to fix. If we had started 30 years ago then it would all be relatively painless, just like the fix for ozone layer.
But now our backs are up against the wall and only radical change will stop catastrophe.
honestly, I think you are exaggerating the threat of climate change. A very bad case would have much coastal land go under water. Massive migration would result. That isn't the apocalypse.
That is kinda happening to the Miami area right now, over the last 15 or so years which is an extremely short period. Nothing is going to happen over night and that’s part of the problem.
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Yeah, about that... wrote:
Welp, after a couple of recent mini-peaks (he was actually flirting with 44% approval), it appears that DJT is on the way back down--and his disapproval ratings are heading up.
The battle lines mostly seem to be drawn, though. Absent a (quite unlikely) stock-market crash or other clear recession signal, I seriously doubt the President will go below 40%, or above 44%. As others have observed, the only question is whose supporters will actually go to the polls and vote.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/Trump has a 45.2% approval per RCP average.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html
And that’s something to be proud of?
Trollminator wrote:
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Trump has a 45.2% approval per RCP average.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.htmlAnd that’s something to be proud of?
Yes! Despite the media's love affair with Obama, his RCP average wasn't much higher than Trump's. Obama's 2nd term average is barely higher Trump's latest number.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html1st term: 49.6% approval
2nd term: 45.9% approval
Sally Vix wrote:
Conundrum wrote:
I know republicans hate this comparison. But Nazi Germany started out as a democracy.
Hitler was extremely popular with the masses. They simply looked the other way as he committed one atrocity after another. Even before that how he gradually gained control of the government, courts and media.
No government or country is immune to losing their way. Great civilizations have dissolved into something much less.
Condundrum - have you seen how the Democratic party has lowered itself to? If you don't support late-term abortion - you are ostracized. Bernie, Pete, Warren are all for infanticide. Can you agree that this is very sick? AS bad as the Repubs might be- they don't advocate sticking forks into the brains of babies who survive botched abortions. I hope you can agree that killing viable babies is bad. REALLY REALLY BAD.
You changed the subject away from the vulnerabilities of democracy to power hungry populist leaders.
Hey Trump lovers, whatever happened to MS-13? Did they all move away after the election? Haven’t heard you right wingers complaining about them in a long time.
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Yeah, about that... wrote:
Welp, after a couple of recent mini-peaks (he was actually flirting with 44% approval), it appears that DJT is on the way back down--and his disapproval ratings are heading up.
The battle lines mostly seem to be drawn, though. Absent a (quite unlikely) stock-market crash or other clear recession signal, I seriously doubt the President will go below 40%, or above 44%. As others have observed, the only question is whose supporters will actually go to the polls and vote.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/Trump has a 45.2% approval per RCP average.
I actually bet it’s higher than that, polls tend to over sample Dems and there seems to be a Bradley effect on top of that when it comes to President Trump.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html
Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
honestly, I think you are exaggerating the threat of climate change. A very bad case would have much coastal land go under water. Massive migration would result. That isn't the apocalypse.
That is kinda happening to the Miami area right now, over the last 15 or so years which is an extremely short period. Nothing is going to happen over night and that’s part of the problem.
Give me a break, climate change has been used by liberals as a scare tactic as far back as the 70’s, none of their predictions come true and there’s no accountability for how inaccurate they’ve been.
Trollminator wrote:
agip wrote:
honestly, I think you are exaggerating the threat of climate change. A very bad case would have much coastal land go under water. Massive migration would result. That isn't the apocalypse.
That is kinda happening to the Miami area right now, over the last 15 or so years which is an extremely short period. Nothing is going to happen over night and that’s part of the problem.
Yes. I just saw an interesting piece about how developers are fleeing beachfront property in Miami. Instead, they are buying up homes in poverty-stricken little Haiti. The former Haitian refugees happen to live on the highest ground in the area. Rents are now sky high and Haitian businesses are closing. The whole community has been devastated.
But even these developers are playing a risky game. Nobody knows when the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is going to give way. When it does, no place in Miami will be safe.
Do You Remember? wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
That is kinda happening to the Miami area right now, over the last 15 or so years which is an extremely short period. Nothing is going to happen over night and that’s part of the problem.
Give me a break, climate change has been used by liberals as a scare tactic as far back as the 70’s, none of their predictions come true and there’s no accountability for how inaccurate they’ve been.
Give me a break. Climate change has been called a hoax by conservatives as a scare tactic as far back as the 70's. None of their conspiracy theories are borne out and there is no accountability for the lies spread by fossil fuel companies who knew they were destroying the planet at the same time they were spreading propaganda to undermine the science.
Yet the scientists continue to be right about rising temperatures, rising sea levels, rising ocean acidity, death from air pollution, mass extinction, loss of ecosystems, more intense drought and flooding, more intense wildfires, crop failures, and mass migrations.
Fat hurts wrote:
Do You Remember? wrote:
Give me a break, climate change has been used by liberals as a scare tactic as far back as the 70’s, none of their predictions come true and there’s no accountability for how inaccurate they’ve been.
Give me a break. Climate change has been called a hoax by conservatives as a scare tactic as far back as the 70's. None of their conspiracy theories are borne out and there is no accountability for the lies spread by fossil fuel companies who knew they were destroying the planet at the same time they were spreading propaganda to undermine the science.
Yet the scientists continue to be right about rising temperatures, rising sea levels, rising ocean acidity, death from air pollution, mass extinction, loss of ecosystems, more intense drought and flooding, more intense wildfires, crop failures, and mass migrations.
This x 100000000
It shouldn’t be that difficult for republicans to change policy on this if that’s the way markets and consumers are going. Lots of jobs to be had too.
Long term isn’t switching to renewable energy basically just a extension of the technology and infrastructure we already have?
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/earth103/node/639agip wrote:
honestly, I think you are exaggerating the threat of climate change. A very bad case would have much coastal land go under water. Massive migration would result. That isn't the apocalypse.