Roe v Wade just got overturned official thread

Just wondering when talking about when life starts, have you considered the risks to the pregnant woman's life and health?

Ok, now you are just making stuff up with no logic or coherence. I’m giving you a rationale and fixed and universally recognized endpoint, brain activity. I want to hear a real argument as to why the definition of the beginning of human life should differ from the established definition of the end. I don’t think you can apart from some sort of faith base argument or one based on squishy concepts like “potential.” I am a scientist and I’m pretty confident my explanation is data based and scientifically sound. If you want to argue that we also have wrongly defined the end of life, fine. But no, if you have a set cut point to define the end, this cut point defines the beginning.

Dude, I answered your question. Don’t attribute any more beliefs to me to which i I have not explicitly admitted in writing. And in case you forgot, there is also a father involved here whose shared property the unborn embryo is, which the flawed Roe also conveniently forgot about.

If mom and pop both want to terminate the unborn child, the state determines under what circumstances it is okay. I know no one who thinks the state has no role in regulating abortions at all. It’s only a question of differences over when the clock starts for state intervention. It’s not clear to me that that timeline need be related to brain stem activity as you claimed.

Did she consider those risks? If she did then I guess we're ok.

1. Should we check the menses to see if a life has been lost?

2. The zygote not implanting is no less a tragic loss than an unfertilized ovum passing. I’m not speaking about persons trying to become pregnant and struggling. But the zygote is at such an early stage of development, assuming a full term pregnancy is not desired, the termination of that development isn’t tragic. This is very distinct from a fetus much later long in development because then we’re talking about a fully fledged human being.

3. Why the qualifier? It shouldn’t matter at all the circumstances.

4. The opposition to abortion is chiefly on punishing women for having elective sex. If it’s really about “this human being will die without their womb” then why can’t the State force you to give up a kidney to someone who will die without one? All life is sacred, yes? The pro-life crowd must agree that the State has a duty to compel you to give up part of your body to preserve a life.

If you’re going to counter, “I didn’t choose to create you,” why does that matter at all? Unless the anti-abortion reasoning is about punishing women and not preserving life.

So it’s okay to kill the kid in this case.

So you’re arguing for abortions to be ok up until week 8-12? That’s when neurological impulses begin in the brain. 80% of voters agree with restricting abortion after the first trimester, so you’re right in line with the majority.

The difference in a brain dead adult is that the potential for that person is over, unfortunately. Due to trauma or unfortunate circumstances, their brain has failed them. However, for a life inside the womb things are just beginning.

You’re snuffing out a unique life before it even has the chance to realize it’s potential when you abort a baby. that’s quite a bit different than a brain dead person dying.

I work in healthcare as well. And this is why whenever a pregnant woman suffers any sort of trauma, such as a car accident, her first concern is her baby. Not her “clump of cells”, her baby.

I gave you logic, coherence of principle, and other examples of application of that principle, namely no reason why start and end have to be the same. At the end of the day, you have as rigid a personal belief system as Yawn does. There is no higher-level more compelling justification of your respective beliefs; the buck stops there.

Btw I’m also a scientist, so what? We are not debating credentials here, just the strength of our respective arguments.

Or:

They can exercise their choice to have an elective procedure to end the pregnancy.

I don’t see how anyone who thinks abortion is murder can say it’s actually okay to murder the kid when it’s because of rape. You wouldn’t be okay with it if the baby were born, so why is it okay to kill the child of rape in the first trimester?

Unless somewhere you understand that a first trimester embryo isn’t yet a fully fledged person that a newborn is and your opposition to abortion outside of rape is because you want loose women to have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

In my book of principles, yes, within a state mandated time period of conception.

But dude, “kid” sounds painfully forced a language that no one uses, except maybe cartoon characters. Stop the caricaturing.

If you support abortion, then pass a federal law requiring it, easy to do with the power of the purse, or amend the U.S. Constitution to make it an express right, would also be easy to do if abortion was popular.

This is all a problem in your head. I can’t care enough about it. If you like, have your rape baby and raise it. I already explained my position and the principle behind it.

No one mentioned the word “loose” and I’ve explained myself plenty. It is you who sounds like a sexist judgmental person that doesn’t like women having too much sex.

Huh? You're basically saying an embryo is dead until it has brain activity which is some kind of miracle to be honest.

Yes, since you are such a staunch fan of this idea so as to keep repeating it, please smear the menses all over your face and eyeballs to inspect life lost. And also do a taste test. WTF are you demanding be done if you taste fetus?

Just shrill pointless blabber.

The majority of Americans do support abortion. A small minority want an outright ban.

fivethirtyeight.com

Where Americans Stand On Abortion, In 5 Charts

Maya Sweedler

UPDATE (June 24, 2022, 12:31 p.m.): On Friday, the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, which established the constitutional right to abortion in 1973, with fi…

Link:fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-ame...

Well said. The left would vote for Hitler if they could get late abortions legal and free. Single issue voters like the evangelicals used to be. Just recognize this is the is the inherent weakness in our system still much better than killing each

This thread is so ridiculous. Countless developed nations have legal, safe, and accessible abortions by law. The USA is arguing about stuff that makes it look like a s***hole country. Are you guys gonna start arguing about whether or not slavery should be legalized?

Why is it always the bible belt states that seem to be completely idiotic. Leading the nation in obesity, diabetes, uneducated people, religious fundamentalism. People quote the bible that states abortions are wrong, but conveniently leave out how women are property, and daughters can be bought and sold according to the bible. Your country has been hijacked by total whack jobs, it's really sad to see.

Some interesting points have been raised about Clarence Thomas's concurrence, where he basically says he is going to try and find cases where he can overturn a list of substantive due process cases like Griswold (contraception), Lawrence (same-sex sex), and Obergfell (same-sex marriage). Thomas notably left the Loving case off his list of targets, which did use the Due Process clause (as well as Equal Protection) to strike down miscegenation laws. A little bit of hypocrisy is smoldering here as Thomas is presumably a big fan of miscegenation (he practices it to some degree), while he's harsh critic of same-sex anything. While there are differences between interracial sex and marriage and same-sex sex and marriage, they are much more similar than they are different for Constitutional purposes. Thomas may have to explain in an opinion some day soon why he is allowed to marry who he wants against the objection of many, while other people are not. He can do it, but it will take some legal gymnastics that will be difficult and tenuous.

(Frankly, after seeing photos of Ginni Thomas, I just assumed she had to be Clarence's gay beard and he would drop the campaign against Obergfell once it was decided. I was wrong.).

Wonder what the Wise Old Man doctor will tell his wife or daughter or granddaughter if she is pregnant and gets into an accident and is worried about her baby: “don’t worry babe, it’s just a brain dead clump of cells. I’m a doctor and a scientist and my opinion is rooted in data and evidence.”