Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

The thing about shoes wrote:

jimmysea84 wrote:

Hi all - long time lurker. I was fortunate enough to sit down with Sirpoc and FOD Runner earlier in the week for a video call. Honestly the best conversation I've ever had about marathon prep and racing - I learnt so much! We all agreed that we were just getting started, so I think this will be the first of several. You can watch the video here:

Video:youtu.be/zYHcctpQ2rQ

Can't thank James and Andy enough for their time. Non-stop wisdom.

Nice interview Jimmy .. It's always nice to hear James talking.

If you ever get a second chance of doing another. which I hope you do then may I request going beyond the basic and getting into specifics.

Like for example:

Why 30-40 min of threshold 3 times a week and not 60?

Is it just the mechanics of running that make it an issue or are there aerobic issues too .. Seems like the former since James contemplates sitting on his bike for a second session instead of just running doubles. Do cyclist spend much more time in the threshold zone?

James said a zillion times .. "If you know your fitness then ...", but how exactly do you know your fitness well enough to go "Oh ok .. I'm going to aim for a 2:27 marathon today!". Is it just experience or does it entail calculations? There is calculation involved, isn't there?

What is the upper limit of easy running ... How do you deal with mechanical stress other than just hoping for the best and pull back, if you start to feel pain? There was off course that one comment, where he asked for someone to be crazy enough to just run easy for ages, wasn't there?

Or like a zillion posters here and on reddit tend to go "you need to keep a 75-25 ratio", but that is only if you're running 7 days a week, right? .. If you're at a point where life for some reason or other for a while only allows you fewer days, then it's probably optimal to remove easy days instead of removing a mix of ST and easy?

-

Or you know what ... Just ask James the following:

"You've been on several podcasts where you talked the host thru the basics of the NSA approach. Is there any stuff you would have loved to talk about that beyond the basics?"

Cheers!

P Luttrell wrote:

strides......and more wrote:

One thing that has struck me from this thread is how many people have mentioned they have got injured directly doing strides. It's come up a number of times. Tbh, I was probably pro strides until recently and actually I would now probably sit on the side of the fence in terms of low reward, increased (although not super high) risk.

It's probably worth discussing, but how are people specifically doing their strides?

I know it just seems like a given, and the instructions are generally vague, but I've noticed a huge variation in the way people carry them out - which can have significant implications for lower or higher injury risk.

I personally do 4 x 15-20 second strides before every sub-T session. These are nowhere near all out. I probably take off at 5k pace and maybe push up slightly beyond 3k pace before gradually decelerating.

I then walk back before doing another. This probably takes 60-75 seconds.

I've noticed some people jog back, which to me seems like you're not giving your immediate system enough time to recover - and you may actually be going glycolytic after a few reps. This seems like a much riskier approach.

But maybe I'm wrong.

The thing about shoes wrote:

Nice interview Jimmy .. It's always nice to hear James talking.

If you ever get a second chance of doing another. which I hope you do then may I request going beyond the basic and getting into specifics.

Like for example:

Why 30-40 min of threshold 3 times a week and not 60?

Is it just the mechanics of running that make it an issue or are there aerobic issues too .. Seems like the former since James contemplates sitting on his bike for a second session instead of just running doubles. Do cyclist spend much more time in the threshold zone?

James said a zillion times .. "If you know your fitness then ...", but how exactly do you know your fitness well enough to go "Oh ok .. I'm going to aim for a 2:27 marathon today!". Is it just experience or does it entail calculations? There is calculation involved, isn't there?

What is the upper limit of easy running ... How do you deal with mechanical stress other than just hoping for the best and pull back, if you start to feel pain? There was off course that one comment, where he asked for someone to be crazy enough to just run easy for ages, wasn't there?

Or like a zillion posters here and on reddit tend to go "you need to keep a 75-25 ratio", but that is only if you're running 7 days a week, right? .. If you're at a point where life for some reason or other for a while only allows you fewer days, then it's probably optimal to remove easy days instead of removing a mix of ST and easy?

-

Or you know what ... Just ask James the following:

"You've been on several podcasts where you talked the host thru the basics of the NSA approach. Is there any stuff you would have loved to talk about that beyond the basics?"

Cheers!

sirpoc84 wrote:

Just about all of that is covered in the book. I'm happy to help out Jimmy if he wants to chat again or FOD (or both), it's not like I'm going to become a YouTuber myself, the book alone has taken up an unreasonable amount of my time.

Ultimately, if people are interested going in and ask the right questions, I'm' usually happy to do podcasts. Why anyone is that interested, I still quite can't work out. But, happy to help. The one issue is usually you can only touch on a fraction of the subject in hand and it often raises more questions than answers. Again, coming back to the book, I hope that'll close a lot of the gaps. It's hard to even remember what I've posted here, I may well have left gaps on things, or it's scattered across various platforms now. Some stuff I have changed, some stuff from the 2023 posts stand the test of time.

But there's large chunks on how you determine fitness, why 30 mins and why that is better than longer, or straight tempo. Just about everything is not just "do this" but asks "why". I think that's important, so you can make up your own mind of how to train, perhaps you don't want to train exactly like this, it can guide and help make your own decisions. Subthreshold is a tool most likely to make the most of your training long term, but certainly isn't the only way.

Again, 75/25 and how that ratio might change is in there. The bike, why I might do that. I think most of your bases covered but it just got to the point I cannot answer all these questions all the time and if nothing else, whilst there's no going back the book might calm things down for a while ha ha I read it cover to cover at the weekend and thought it was pretty good and I assumed I would hate it. My only goal was, if I had this book after 6-12 months from when I started running, would I have wasted less time. The answer is yes.

I guess that was the main idea of the book, to have everything in one place. Doing the book properly was my main motivation, it certainly isn't going to make really any money, or certainly a fraction of what I had as offers from other people to do it or even collab with them. But for me it was more important to answer all the questions like this and stay true to what you guys want or need to know, to help you as much as you can.

Anyway, a bit off topic but the point being , I think if anyone is thinking "what about this" it's probably covered, somewhere between the covers.

sirpoc84 wrote:

The thing about shoes wrote:

Nice interview Jimmy .. It's always nice to hear James talking.

If you ever get a second chance of doing another. which I hope you do then may I request going beyond the basic and getting into specifics.

Like for example:

Why 30-40 min of threshold 3 times a week and not 60?

Is it just the mechanics of running that make it an issue or are there aerobic issues too .. Seems like the former since James contemplates sitting on his bike for a second session instead of just running doubles. Do cyclist spend much more time in the threshold zone?

James said a zillion times .. "If you know your fitness then ...", but how exactly do you know your fitness well enough to go "Oh ok .. I'm going to aim for a 2:27 marathon today!". Is it just experience or does it entail calculations? There is calculation involved, isn't there?

What is the upper limit of easy running ... How do you deal with mechanical stress other than just hoping for the best and pull back, if you start to feel pain? There was off course that one comment, where he asked for someone to be crazy enough to just run easy for ages, wasn't there?

Or like a zillion posters here and on reddit tend to go "you need to keep a 75-25 ratio", but that is only if you're running 7 days a week, right? .. If you're at a point where life for some reason or other for a while only allows you fewer days, then it's probably optimal to remove easy days instead of removing a mix of ST and easy?

-

Or you know what ... Just ask James the following:

"You've been on several podcasts where you talked the host thru the basics of the NSA approach. Is there any stuff you would have loved to talk about that beyond the basics?"

Cheers!

....certainly a fraction of what I had as offers from other people to do it or even collab with them.

sirpoopy never learn wrote:

sirpoc84 wrote:

Just about all of that is covered in the book. I'm happy to help out Jimmy if he wants to chat again or FOD (or both), it's not like I'm going to become a YouTuber myself, the book alone has taken up an unreasonable amount of my time.

Ultimately, if people are interested going in and ask the right questions, I'm' usually happy to do podcasts. Why anyone is that interested, I still quite can't work out. But, happy to help. The one issue is usually you can only touch on a fraction of the subject in hand and it often raises more questions than answers. Again, coming back to the book, I hope that'll close a lot of the gaps. It's hard to even remember what I've posted here, I may well have left gaps on things, or it's scattered across various platforms now. Some stuff I have changed, some stuff from the 2023 posts stand the test of time.

But there's large chunks on how you determine fitness, why 30 mins and why that is better than longer, or straight tempo. Just about everything is not just "do this" but asks "why". I think that's important, so you can make up your own mind of how to train, perhaps you don't want to train exactly like this, it can guide and help make your own decisions. Subthreshold is a tool most likely to make the most of your training long term, but certainly isn't the only way.

Again, 75/25 and how that ratio might change is in there. The bike, why I might do that. I think most of your bases covered but it just got to the point I cannot answer all these questions all the time and if nothing else, whilst there's no going back the book might calm things down for a while ha ha I read it cover to cover at the weekend and thought it was pretty good and I assumed I would hate it. My only goal was, if I had this book after 6-12 months from when I started running, would I have wasted less time. The answer is yes.

I guess that was the main idea of the book, to have everything in one place. Doing the book properly was my main motivation, it certainly isn't going to make really any money, or certainly a fraction of what I had as offers from other people to do it or even collab with them. But for me it was more important to answer all the questions like this and stay true to what you guys want or need to know, to help you as much as you can.

Anyway, a bit off topic but the point being , I think if anyone is thinking "what about this" it's probably covered, somewhere between the covers.

You think people are interested, nobody cares. You should have let the professionals help you. Idiot for not seeking it.

sirpoopy never learn wrote:

sirpoc84 wrote:

Just about all of that is covered in the book. I'm happy to help out Jimmy if he wants to chat again or FOD (or both), it's not like I'm going to become a YouTuber myself, the book alone has taken up an unreasonable amount of my time.

Ultimately, if people are interested going in and ask the right questions, I'm' usually happy to do podcasts. Why anyone is that interested, I still quite can't work out. But, happy to help. The one issue is usually you can only touch on a fraction of the subject in hand and it often raises more questions than answers. Again, coming back to the book, I hope that'll close a lot of the gaps. It's hard to even remember what I've posted here, I may well have left gaps on things, or it's scattered across various platforms now. Some stuff I have changed, some stuff from the 2023 posts stand the test of time.

But there's large chunks on how you determine fitness, why 30 mins and why that is better than longer, or straight tempo. Just about everything is not just "do this" but asks "why". I think that's important, so you can make up your own mind of how to train, perhaps you don't want to train exactly like this, it can guide and help make your own decisions. Subthreshold is a tool most likely to make the most of your training long term, but certainly isn't the only way.

Again, 75/25 and how that ratio might change is in there. The bike, why I might do that. I think most of your bases covered but it just got to the point I cannot answer all these questions all the time and if nothing else, whilst there's no going back the book might calm things down for a while ha ha I read it cover to cover at the weekend and thought it was pretty good and I assumed I would hate it. My only goal was, if I had this book after 6-12 months from when I started running, would I have wasted less time. The answer is yes.

I guess that was the main idea of the book, to have everything in one place. Doing the book properly was my main motivation, it certainly isn't going to make really any money, or certainly a fraction of what I had as offers from other people to do it or even collab with them. But for me it was more important to answer all the questions like this and stay true to what you guys want or need to know, to help you as much as you can.

Anyway, a bit off topic but the point being , I think if anyone is thinking "what about this" it's probably covered, somewhere between the covers.

You think people are interested, nobody cares. You should have let the professionals help you. Idiot for not seeking it.