50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

tbirdxc wrote:

Just wondering why US Cross is so lightly attended by masters like this weekend's event in St. Louis. 13 guys in 50-54. This was the first time it was within driving distance for Midwesterners so I drove the 7 hours to attend and race, also bringing a couple of high schoolers I coach. I also drove to Boulder when it was there a few years back. Is it the locale that keeps numbers down, competition with club cross that is close on the calendar, or just the wrong time of year?

First, I think the USATF is doing a great job in acknowledging the need for masters races and then setting them up. So much work goes into one of these events. Many people toil in obscurity to organized these events without a thank-you or a paycheck. I know. Next, mid-winter is a downtime for most of us. I dunno about you but I can no longer race 3 seasons a year. I'm lucky to get one. And, as lucKY stated, we have many priorities. My paycheck does not come from the USATF or any running-related enterprise. I serve who pays me. Lastly, I'm not really that fast of a 50+ 'er. Although most who post here are really fast, its a tough call to drive to a race to get your clock cleaned. No joy.

I appreciate your replies. I'll answer my own post. First, there are not many opportunities where I live to go just against guys my own age...I enjoy that. Yes, I show up and get my "clock cleaned" but enjoy it nonetheless. Secondly, as a coach I get to expose a few of my kids to world (or at least national) class running. On top of that, we got to hear Ryan Hall and Desi Davila speak and hopefully they will remember that as a great experience. The event will be back in St. Louis in 2013. I will likely go back.

Craig- I think most of the masters athletes focus on Club Cross in December. There were 356 40+ athletes including 87 in the 50-54 age group in Seattle. There were also 17 50+ teams entered, it was quite the show! Having said that, it is hard to extend the cross season another 60+ days. Most of us are doing track (March 16-17, Bloomington, Indiana) or getting ready for our spring road campaigns.

*************************

Week 39

*************************

Greetings 50+ers.

Although the weather map looks a little frightening today, don't be fooled; we haven't had anything hit the ground yet. Points south of Lexington are getting it pretty bad though.

Reached 51 miles on 6 days of running this week. There was a bit more up-tempo work this week. My hip hasn't felt better in a long time. The additional hamstring exercises (and they're not very strenuous) seem to have complemented what I'd already been doing and I just feel like I'm finally on the road to full recovery....Woo-hoo!

My daily mileage logs read as such:

S: 10.3 w/ 5.3@6:34 pace

M: 8 w/10x60m strides

T: 0 (too busy)

W: 8 w/4x800 (2:40,2:42,2:43,2:41) 250m jog recovery

R: 8 w/4 accelerated (7:14,6:48,6:34,5:57) unplanned

F: 6.7 easy

S: 10.2 easy to moderate

Weekly Total: 51 miles

Notes:

1) Monday's strides were on the 5-lap/mile indoor track, so 10 straightaway strides+10 jog turns yields 1 mile; interesting that the whole set yields a 5:57 mile.

2) Wednesday, I had planned to do 5x800m, but I could tell after 4 that I could maybe squeeze out one more, but it would completely tap me...and I've been following the advice that you should quit when you feel you still have one left in you. I'm a little disappointed as I had done 5 back in December, and I feel I'm in better shape. I guess these winter colds are just lingering.

3) On Thursday, after a warm-up jog to the indoor track, I was going to just run some easy laps on the track. But as the laps went on, I just started running a little faster each one, totally unplanned acceleration run.

Additional comments:

1) I should have added my kudos to Spikez on her AR last weekend in Colorado. Bravo!

2) Back in January, there was a nice article in the Chicago Sun-Times about a guy that did a 50-mile race on his 50th.

http://heraldnews.suntimes.com/news/9902730-418/channahon-man-doesnt-let-age-slow-him-in-50-mile-runs.html

1st in his age-group, 5th overall. Always inspiring!

3) After Pete Magill's article in Running Times last month, there was some interesting discussion on the Masterstrack site:

http://masterstrack.com/2012/02/21386/

Any comments?

4) Finally, our local soon-to-be 40yo, Kevin Castille, ran an awesome 14:01.7 5000m, last weekend at the UW Husky Classic:

http://www.directathletics.com/results/track/22376_1465660.html?athlete_hnd=3774480

. I suppose I should send a heads-up to the MWR&R thread. :-)

Looking on the horizon, we'll be getting into spring racing before you know it. We start out here with a 3k Shamrock Shuffle on St. Patty's Day. Haven't run it before, but it might be about the right time this year. Not doing the River-to-River Relay this year...just too expensive. There is still the Indoor Masters in Bloomington that is tempting...but probably not.

OK. That's all I got for now. Hope you all are doing well. What's up in your neck of the woods?

Nice Thursday lucKY. That's some meat and potatoes that will pay dividends. On the Magill article on supplementation I find the issue complicated beyond our current ability to solve it with rules. Personally, if I found out my testosterone level was low I would not supplement it unless it created a health problem with real consequences. I like Chantry's comment. He got fast by busting it harder than anyone else, no supplements required.

Sat = 5, Track reps of 6:41, 7:03, 7:14

Sun = 2.7, Mountain

Mon = 5K, 23:52, 7:40 pace

Tue = 5K, 25:40, 8:15 pace

Wed = 5K, 24:21, 7:50 pace

Total Miles = 17

Average pace for 12.3 timed miles = 7:28

I was sick all week with a head cold. I figured I’d make it a rest week where I did not press tempos every day. Saturday’s track reps were really unpleasant as I just felt awful. I wanted to time everything just to get a baseline for what it’s like to run while sick.

Should be happy with the week, L2b...Nice!

Things are probably close to 75% here but at least I'm able to run. There's considerable soreness at times while there's zero pain at other times. Managed 40 miles with a day off. The runs on Tuesday (7@6:51) and Saturday (9@6:54 with a 6:18 last mile) showed there's hope for me yet...

Going to take it day-by-day again this week but it would be great to get 50+ miles in.

Have a good week everyone...

Dave

Finally on Wednesday I felt some zip back in my legs. Whatever stomach bug I had finally left after hanging around much too long. I added a mile onto my weekday runs since I didn't go very hard last weekend. Then on Saturday I did a negative split 8 mile. With all the rest I'd had, I probably went a bit too hard. The splits were 7:54, 6:57, 6:42, 6:41, 6:34, 6:23, 6:12, 6:15. It was exhilarating but my hamstring was not happy later in the day. I followed this up with a more reasonable 8 mile tempo today.

I'm now using the last pair of Saucony Trigon Guides (circa 2007) in my closet. This means the beginning of my frantic quest to find another shoe that doesn't bother my knee. I think the knee needs to move in just the right track or it starts aching.

M: 5 easy

T: 5 easy

W: 5 easy

T: 5 easy

F: 5 easy

S: 8 mile hard tempo

S: 8 miles moderate tempo

I appear to have been on the same program as L2B, 51 miles in 6 days, except no real workouts in mine. I read Pete Magill's article and the masterstrack.com comments with interest. The issue with medications for older people is a tough one. I really feel blessed that I have never needed to be on any prescription drugs other than the occasional course of antibiotics. I think after reading everything I come down in favor of allowing everyone to compete in Masters, but have people be able to declare that they are taking some performance enhancing drug for health reasons and exclude them from places and awards in meet results.

This year (2012) was the first winter xc race I've missed since I started doing them in 2001. (I've also run all but one - 2001 - fall xc club nationals). This year, I decided I wasn't going. First off, financially it seemed irresponsible. Even though a friend gave me a "buddy pass" last year to attend, it still was several hundred dollars in expenses to go. I just don't have that this year.

Second, the meet just isn't that fun for me. I LOVE cross country and will do a lot to extend my season so I can continue racing it, instead of track or roads. But the USA championships is generally for the picking of the World teams (and this year, not even for that). The bulk of the entrants are super fast, professionals trying to get a spot on a world team - as an older, slower, female runner, I just don't fit in.

Where the club xc race has a fun atmosphere, has a lot of us more average runners and a big masters field, the USA championships, although they do put in some effort, aren't very welcoming or fun. (In Spokane, the awards ceremony was so lightly attended - I don't think ANY of the elite athletes attended, a few masters runners did and a bunch of military teams did, but it was kind of pathetic. San Diego just gave out the awards in the park).

I think many of my teammates must feel the same. I've never gotten any of the women to run with me on a team and only one or two guys ever run it. The women's masters team competition is generally non-existent, except for an intra-Colorado, plus a local team, competition. The size of the field depends a lot on the locals participation - SoCal and Boulder had a lot, St. Louis and Spokane, not so much.

I think the hosting clubs generally do a terrific job and put on a good meet, with a good course, and an attempt to make it fun for people, but the elites generally all go home right away and there aren't a lot of others sticking around. I don't think it's their fault. The history of the meet has always been a selection race for Worlds, with the later addition of a masters race just an afterthought.

I'm into my 4th running week since my injury. I did 51 miles this week (up for 46 last), with several more sessions on grass and trails. I got sucked into an "easy" tempo run when a friend spied me running in "her" park. Easy, right. I thought I was going to die and it wasn't that fast. I only did half of it and was feeling it all night. Yesterday my achilles or soleus started aching mid-run, so I switched to roads for the remainder and for today's 10.5 miler.

It will be a slow road back, especially as I need to lose some extra weight.

mon- 50min. kyak, 90min. mtn. biking. 10x4 dips and chins.

tue- 14km. run on hilly trails in a solid 70min.

wed- 30min. kyak. 50min. mtn bike ride. 8k run.

thu- 50min. run plus 8x100m.

fri- 23km. run on hilly trails in 1h 55m.

sat- 30min. kyak. 90min. mtn bike. weights.

sun- 13km run into work. 8km run back.

Fantastic post by muddygirl.

Week 39: 4 singles, 1 double, 2 days off, so 6 runs (2 on the treadmill), 41 miles.

Week 40 should be in the high 50s with a couple of good hill workouts (did one of them this morning) and a fairly hard long run.

With all these inspiring posts I don't have a lot to add to the party...I'm in forced rest mode. My coach insists on two weeks of non-impact in order to let me heal up a bit before we begin the gradual build up toward the outdoor season T&F national championships in August. I've had some soreness and lingering tightness in my glutes and hams so this should be helpful. I've been doing hot yoga and pilates classes and I feel much more limber. After my meet in CO last weekend we all went out to lunch and as I sat in the booth (which was minimally padded) I began to squirm. It hurt to sit! Upper hams and glutes are key in my short sprint races and the left hip takes a lot of stress in the rotational movement of the hurdle trail leg. I'm feeling better now. I've been getting my dose of track by coaching my HS kids. Hope everyone has a great week ahead and that all aches and pains start to subside!

77 miles in 7 days. Sticking to the plan, long (16s this past week, 17s this coming) on Sundays & Tuesdays, hills on Mondays, Fartlek on Wednesdays, easy the rest of the week. Over a month since a day off, the body is now fooled into thinking good nutrition, and a good night's sleep is all it needs for recovery (well that and my 1 hour daily nap). My pants no longer fit.

Goal race: Three Sisters Marathon, June 9th

Goals: C = < 3:30 (BQ), B = <3:10 (BQ-20mins.), A = < 3:00

Week of 02/12 - 02/18

Sun, 02/12: 16 miles with SBUX crew. Garmin F'ed up at 12 miles, so don't have overall average pace. Splits through 11 miles were 8:07, 7:30, 7:33, 7:43, 7:49, 7:45, 7:45, 7:34, 7:16, 7:21, 7:20.

Mon, 02/13: usual day off running.

Tue, 02/14: Duniway track. 2 mile warmup, strides. 3 miles alternating 400m in :86-:87 with 200m in :50-:51 (18:53 total). 2 mile cooldown. Day's total = 8 miles.

Wed, 02/15: Fulton run. 6 mile recovery (?) run - 7:57, 7:39, 7:23, 7:20, 7:01, 6:56 (7:23/mi. avg.)

Thu, 02/16: SBUX run. 8 mile recovery (?) run - 8:08, 7:36, 7:23, 7:08, 7:05, 7:13, 6:53, 6:25 (7:16/mi. avg.)

Fri, 02/17: Treadmill run. 5.5 mile recovery (!) run - started off at 7.8mph, finished up at 8.0 mph.

Sat, 02/18: Couples Classic 5k - Eugene, OR. 18:49 (32nd OA, 3rd AG). Splits 5:50, 5:54, 6:16 (?), :48.

Something was up with either the course length or the placement of the mile markers. There is NO WAY I faded from a 5:54 2nd mile to a 6:16 3rd mile. I felt good and have been running long enough to know I wasn't fading that much, if at all. After going through two miles under six-minute pace, I felt confident I could finish up in 18:37 or better. I was "shocked" when I saw the finish clock ticking toward 18:50!

2 mile warmup & cooldown. Day's total = ~8 miles.

Weekly total = 51.5 miles.

Weights/core on Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu.

Both Wednesday's and Thursday's runs turned into progression runs of sorts, instead of actual recovery runs. I was able to handle the pace and workload okay, but need to be smarter about dialing back the intensity a bit on these days so that I'm really recovering.

Have a great week, everyone!

Tim

======================================================================================================================

No running for me, since Thur. the 9th.

This h-string/itb thing is persisting...actually the rest is helping somewhat though my AM duties (newspaper deliveries via bike and some 'trottting') may be slowing down the recovery.

Yeah, Spikez I too well know the feeling of protesting muscles in that area whenever, years ago, after my partially torn h-string in the ischial tuberosity area I would race or do hills..

Look towards the future & hope for a complete recovery..

Chris.

Over & out.

Sorry for taking so long to get back to y'all. It's been a very busy week, what with tests and grading and faculty issues and meetings to attend.

Wanted to thank those that made positive comments on my training last week. I was fairly pleased, but you know how the fire burns, you think you've got more in you.....it'll be a similarly solid week, this week, if the last few days work out well.

Looks like most all have been having productive weeks, whether that means training or recovering. Just a few comments:

*wxboy, that was a nice solid tempo run!

*imarunr, just looking at your training and racing times, seems you're already at your B goal, yes?

*racerdb, hope that you've found whatever caused the shin issues. Glad you're able to get out there.

*nice mileage, runguru.

*as usual, mo'pak's regimen tires me out just reading it.

*I have to agree with Alan B that, as per usual, Muddy Girl has provided us with a cogent, personal, well-formulated post; always a pleasure to read.

*The issue of performance enhancing supplements (esp. testosterone) is a complicated one, and I also agree with what Chantry proposed. Nobody said that aging was fair.

I'm still curious whether anyone will be heading to Bloomington for indoors. And in the long run, who plans on coming down to Lexington for Club Cross in December? I'll be looking forward to finally meeting any of you all.

Hope everyone s having a good week.

Cheers.

[quote]lucKY2b wrote:

*imarunr, just looking at your training and racing times, seems you're already at your B goal, yes?

quote]

One never knows with the marathon. :)

Lifetime PR is 2:41:19 set eons ago. More recently, my last four marathons (2005 NYC, 2007 & 2008 Bostons, 2010 NYC) have been in the 3:00:30 - 3:04 range. Would LOVE to dip back under 3:00 one more time, but at age 53, not sure that will happen.

This marathon on June 9th is at a little bit of altitude (3000-3300') but am not sure if that will make much of a difference in a marathon where you're running totally aerobically. The course looks like it has lots of small rolling hills. I plan to do a recon run on it at the end of March.

This will also be the first year of the event, so one never knows about course accuracy or other logistical problems with a brand new event.

All this being said, I would imagine between 3:05 - 3:10 seems doable. 3:30 is just my failsafe goal.

Also been busy the past few weeks. No weather complaints this month, it's been close to fantastic (if you're a winter buff). Nights in the single digits or a little below, days in the teens and twenties. Decent snow pack, and the sun is getting higher. Great auroras too. Winter in paradise.

Somehow have jumped to a new level with skiing and have had some of my best races in years, and that includes the year I won US masters nats at 50K. Been catching, beating younger guys who usually flog me and keeping closer than I've been in a long time to hmmm sort of the sub-elite class (i.e., top local class & good at regional level, but not nationally ranked).

Latest was a 30K last weekend, sub 3/km on a moderately hilly course. And last night almost won a 5K against the putative floggers, and would have except the race was at night and the last turn was in the dark and there was a fork and I took the wrong fork; finished 2nd by 2 sec.

Hard to explain, but the skis are running great, weather is perfect, health is good, I've had 16 months of consitent training (aerobic) without injury or illness, and two years of upper body/strength work is paying off.

Two 50K races next month.

Been running about 3X/week to supplement skiing. Looking forward to snow melt (about 6 weeks off) and some running races as well.

Thanks Alan B and Lucky, was afraid of the "who the hell cares" response.

I can tell you now, that I DEFINITELY plan to be in Kentucky in December. I really liked that course and I think it plays to my strengths. I severely sprained my ankle upon arrival in Kentucky last time and couldn't even do any running on the course before the race, but I really liked it. It's a gorgeous place and the hills are challenging, but not awful.

I hope they figure out the post-race thing - the security was a bit heavy handed at the hotel and the party didn't seem to get going. However, my team found some club a few blocks away (I have no idea how they discovered it as it was in an office building or something) and it was hopping. We had a great time dancing and ended up at the Waffle House at 3 am. ;-)

Taking baby steps back. Will be in the mid-50s mileage-wise this week.

oh, and imarunr is a metronome - a great pace machine and a methodical trainer. I'm confident that he'll crush his goals. (and he HATES xc, but I give him a big thumbs up for doing it this fall - obviously we never run together! ;-) )