Tribute to 02:20 Marathon

you are a very good amateur. you are not Chris Froome. You do not need marginal gains and over analysis - in fact it is dangerous for you.

You need to run by feel and learn to understand your body and your pace.

If you can only do this by a pacer, you are doing yourself a dangerous disservice.

Yes, a coach helps, but at your level utside agencies - coaches, watches, pacers must not take over. dont worry if you miss goals on your first tt. learn from yourself.

Just run ffs.

so when the start this month?

Today 15-20x400 @75-76 I sucked, ran 7x400 @77.7, avg rest=79, avg hr=152, felt no power in legs, like a sponge, at each reps around 250m lack of air. Generally felt today in the morning drained, bad day ??? When I saw on watch that cannot keep 76 and after rep no. 6 resting time exceeded 90s, decided to stop, no reason to run more... what to do. I ran not in vaporflys, not on track like usually.

It’s good you made the smart decision and listened to your body. It was crazy you had 15-20x400 in your program this week and I hope you make the smart call about your LT repeats.

I know you’ve been cycling but cycling is much different than running repeats. For where you are in your running journey and coming off a running break, I think you’d be much better off with easy running mixed in with some strides, low key fartleks and controlled progression runs.

Don’t feel like you have to run your old workouts your first week back. A good training program is one that follows the athlete, not the other way around.

Canefis wrote:

Today 15-20x400 @75-76 I sucked, ran 7x400 @77.7, avg rest=79, avg hr=152, felt no power in legs, like a sponge, at each reps around 250m lack of air. Generally felt today in the morning drained, bad day ??? When I saw on watch that cannot keep 76 and after rep no. 6 resting time exceeded 90s, decided to stop, no reason to run more... what to do. I ran not in vaporflys, not on track like usually.

Smart cutting it short. I had a tough day today as well (the first in a while). These days are good to deflate the ego. Good luck Slava.

SouthernFriedRealist wrote:

It’s good you made the smart decision and listened to your body. It was crazy you had 15-20x400 in your program this week and I hope you make the smart call about your LT repeats.

I know you’ve been cycling but cycling is much different than running repeats. For where you are in your running journey and coming off a running break, I think you’d be much better off with easy running mixed in with some strides, low key fartleks and controlled progression runs.

Don’t feel like you have to run your old workouts your first week back. A good training program is one that follows the athlete, not the other way around.

Yee, cycling I use in order to hold aerobic base, only for this purpose.

Speed as a woman is a very capricious thing and takes time. In cycling, I went through this, but what I don't like is that when there is a break due to an injury or something, the speed sags a lot in the legs.... and I don't like this in the Dancan system. Whether strength exercises are not enough, or the aerobic base is not enough, so the speed for 1 week without workouts should not sink so much in the legs. Because during the recovery period, I turned into the mountains on power gears and a couple of times did 2x20min LT intervals on bike at LTHR power to somehow keep the strength in my legs during the recovery period, damn it, and still the speed sank a lot....

I am not happy with this

Coach said we will try to repeat workout in Friday with same pace

I asked Coach, maybe to put at easy days some strides 3-4x100m , I like them a lot. Ok, at least for next weeks to take some benefits, as I know mitochondria growing so slowly, you did workout and you feel benefits after 21-28 days...

Cycling can be good for keeping the weight off during running and for landing the muscles a bit but your CNS fires a lot different than running. Guys who I could beat by thirty minutes in a half marathon would toy with me on the bike.

But be patient. There’s no need to force things right now. Your body is telling you to relax, so I don’t understand trying 15-20x400m again on Friday. But maybe you’ll feel better.

I need to pay attention to what I type. Cycling is good for keeping the weight off during injury and for loading the muscles.

SouthernFriedRealist wrote:

Cycling can be good for keeping the weight off during running and for landing the muscles a bit but your CNS fires a lot different than running. Guys who I could beat by thirty minutes in a half marathon would toy with me on the bike.

But be patient. There’s no need to force things right now. Your body is telling you to relax, so I don’t understand trying 15-20x400m again on Friday. But maybe you’ll feel better.

Coach said that we can try again, no more LT intervals this week.

You know, I started to think that Dancan system is like peak-sharpening period system, but when you are not on the peak, it is quite difficult to follow, maybe too low mileage, maybe need to make system more different for different period of training like pre-base-hills-speed-peak-race-post race etc.(periodization?). In cycling I followed that principle and it worked well for my body

Canefis wrote:

Coach said that we can try again, no more LT intervals this week.

You know, I started to think that Dancan system is like peak-sharpening period system, but when you are not on the peak, it is quite difficult to follow, maybe too low mileage, maybe need to make system more different for different period of training like pre-base-hills-speed-peak-race-post race etc.(periodization?). In cycling I followed that principle and it worked well for my body

Than it no longer is dancan system.

You now train to peak for 28-2-2021 marathon.

If indeed race still goes on that is. If not, you still can run 26.2 miles by yourself.

If you want proof if dancan work( for you), keep up this way. And coach said you are in 2:25 shape. That will be your reference.

Otherwise make changes.

You had a bad day, that’s “real life” do not overthink a bad workout. Maybe little sickness, bad sleep, to much work, not the vaporshoes, whatever, sh*t happens.

Could someone please give a summary of the last 42 pages? I read the first few pages, skipped a few, saw he got injured, skipped to the end, and saw he's starting to realize that JS doesn't know what he's talking about.

If someone could answer:

- Maximum mileage reached?

- When/how/what injury? How long?

- Has he done any time trials? How fast?

- Best sessions he ran?

- Is the marathon still going ahead?

- How many WR predictions has JS made?

- What excuses has JS given for his athlete not being in WR shape?

Canefis wrote:

Today 15-20x400 @75-76 I sucked, ran 7x400 @77.7, avg rest=79, avg hr=152, felt no power in legs, like a sponge, at each reps around 250m lack of air. Generally felt today in the morning drained, bad day ??? When I saw on watch that cannot keep 76 and after rep no. 6 resting time exceeded 90s, decided to stop, no reason to run more... what to do. I ran not in vaporflys, not on track like usually.

Some updates:

Today after this "bad workout?" I took bike and went on runned distance in order to measure distance by bike wheel. So, I rolled bike wheel and got 200 loops exactly x 2120 mm (length of one wheel circle)=424m!!!

f@ck!!!!!!

I made a mistake and trusted marks on those road (it was 5 marks, supposed every 100m). And wondering "why am I so slow?" :-))))))))))))))) holy sh@t..... f@cked up good workout by stupidity.......

7x400 @73.3s final result, avg rest=79s, avg hr=152

Confused, no power in legs, feel like sponge, lack of air after 250m (lets make it 275) feel bad and drained, resting time exceeded 90sec

But because 424 m it is now good workout?

Oké I’m outta here.

Cycling is a very good substitute for running to keep up the aerob balance as much as possible when you can`t run because of some injury , but it`s mainly a very different biomechanically movement with a different type of load on the legs and feet. And to add to this you don`t use your arms in cycling as in running.I thougt it was interesting to see your initiative to continue cycling in parallel with running , but it looks that you then affects the running itself with its special moving patterns and requirements negatively. I see this combination with a cycling session plus a running session per day is far from the best way to go when your running training can be done without problems.In order for the important supercompensation to be as effective as possible , a sufficiently good recovery is required. This is often forgotten by both runners and coaches.

And this I say even if I now saw that you "messed up" the measuring, lol :)

Now says the coach , just go the "clean" DANCAN way and everything gonna be allright.......

Don`t worry! Stay happy! :)

Ps! And it looked like my now prescribed changed pace for you out from my "Rubber band principle" at 75-76/ 400m is right on target up to your shape for the day. We will see what happens on Friday then( not in the morning but in the afternoon when most bodies are at their highest performing) and I hope you can do it on the track in your vaporflys.Interesting!

You prescribed 15-20x400m and he made seven. Your pace was too fast and the volume was too high.

Eat more Tofu wrote:

You prescribed 15-20x400m and he made seven. Your pace was too fast and the volume was too high.

Yes, but my confusion was regarding why too much drop speed in legs after recovery week from injury without running and workouts... Now I find out, that speed dropped but not much, english is my second language ((

Yes, your speed only dropped a little bit but the volume was cut 1/2 to 2/3. If you did the prescribed 15-20, you would have had to run in the 80s, which is slower than the prescribed pace.

If the original workout was only 7x400m, he would have prescribed a MUCH faster pace. I don't see why Jan thinks this was a good workout and as another poster said, it was crazy to prescribe the 400s and LT work when you're coming back from injury. Having to drastically cut down the volume shows that, but Jan won't understand.

Eat more Tofu wrote:

You prescribed 15-20x400m and he made seven. Your pace was too fast and the volume was too high.

How did you think now?

I prescribed 15-20 x 400s at 75-76 sec and he thougt he ran 400s but in fact it was 424 m and then equivalent pace of 70.8-71.7 sec