Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

I am looking for new easy/recovery shoes. I want them to be well cushioned and I don't care about how speedy they are, something like Invincibles. Does anyone have some Chinese suggestions?

What sort of things did you take from it? I was really interested to real chillruns thoughts about it.

I'm always glad when I read posts like this that sirpoc is actually the kind of guy we think he is and not one of the d-bags. There's far too many of them spoiling running these days. Maybe I'm old and moaning, but there seems to be so many so called influencers only in it for themselves. Maybe though that is just me showing my age.

Elmer Fudd here trying to figure out if it’s Duck season or Wabbit season

It’s very comprehensive and entertaining

Hits every major point in the thread and then some

I think with Sirpoc and Bakken you get the entire spectrum of what this approach is capable of, and after some of their chats, i think there’s probably even more to explore and expound on.

The reddit exchanges that are public from Bakken are an interesting window into how an elite can think exactly the same as a hobbyjogger (sirpoc): both incredibly conservative to not upset the applecart especially when the devil offers you a shiny fiddle made of gold

My takeaways were: ‘wow, there’s so much in this book i did not expect’ also ‘holy S, i never would have expected this level of detail on certain subjects’

i think weve talked every week (most days of every week) since the thread started, and i was still surprised by things that were in there

Im in my Old F stage as well, but if youre like me and have been in the running sauce for almost 3 decades following random BS, this thread and this book and Sirpoc (and Bakken by extension) pretty much exact opposite of the horse S weve had to cling to in this area of interest

Also, definitely dont want to take anything away from what Chillruns thought, dude is like Caine in Kung Fu, quietly doing everything right and seeing massive improvements

He’s probably one of the most diligent and humble ppl that have rolled through these parts

My easy rec would be Li-Ning Chitu 8 Pro (Red Hare 8 Pro) but they aren't quite like the Invincibles. Maybe the Qiaodan Feiying Plaid 1.5 if you don't mind the bootleg logo.

I bet those are some interesting discussions. Shame they aren't public. But in a way I would expect nothing less of these two guys. The exact opposite of guys who seek the attention.

There's probably tons of us, but put me in the skeptical box initially. You offen get threads like this over the years but rarely one that explodes for the masses. I'm now fully willing to accept between Bakken and sirpoc they have covered the full spectrum. Obviously no training focus lasts forever, stuff comes in and out of fashion, but you only have to look at how Bakken's training has exploded at elite level (yes there was a world before Jakob) and how the cycling load management version (again this focus is quite different to KI) imported to running has started to even cross into mainstream, thanks to sirpoc and his time trialing background.

Both at their core, really are saying the same thing. Caution is the name of the game and slow but consistent progress can trump just about any training block or forced specificity at the risk of injury. I mean that sounds so simple. But the vast majority of training plans and books STILL give you far too aggressive plans you might not even make it through in 12-16 weeks. You build, you have a break and it's a question of, then what? In retrospect, especially for hobby joggers who have ever lower fitness levels, it just doesn't make sense. When Magness dropped in, despite all his experience he still didn't understand this concept I don't think.

I have bought and tried the Li Ning Challenger 5, and I really love them.
Thinking about buying a pair of Do-wins too.

Isn't there some Li Ning Elites and Ultras too?
Anyone who have tried them?

Got the Elites. They're fine, on the firmer side, but nothing to write home about. Wouldn't wear them for a race, and for training they feel kinda pointless with the Challenger being much cheaper.

I'd probably give the Do-Win Adiclogs edition a shot.

Regarding sessions, has anyone ever played with the scheduling of session durations such as the following:

Week 1
Tuesday: 10-12 x 3 mins
Thursday: 6-7 x 6 mins
Saturday: 4-5 x 9 mins

Week 2
Tuesday: 3-4 x 12 mins
Thursday: 3 x 15 mins
Saturday: 2-3 x 18 mins (probably more towards LT1 effort rather than closer to LT2)

Week 3 then repeats as per Week 1, Week 4 as per Week 2 etc.. There would be no change to the recovery runs and long runs compared to vanilla NSA.

This would allow you to work across a wider range of paces and time spent at ST per rep, and also add a bit of variety in mixing up what is done week to week.

People focussing on longer distances (HM and M) could potentially drop the 3 min reps and replace with 2x 21 mins, as could those focussing on 5K/10K distances could drop the 18 min reps and do 20-24 x 60s / 400m (I know SirPoc has recently re-attempted these and still feels the mechanical load is too high, so there is a cost/benefit issue here).

I'm not proposing any changes to the way you run the session i.e. always run ST with a rest (static/walk/slow jog - your choice) of 60s to 3 mins, just interested in if anyone works across a broader range of rep durations?

Were you watching The Lactate Threshold - A Coach's Guide by McMillian running by any chance ?

I have done this. I think the issue is it started to get complicated. You have a wider range of places, intensities to dial in. It's totally possible with lactate testing etc, but then you also have the fact it becomes less plug and play where you just do your training and forget about it.

I also noticed no difference, going from vanilla, to playing around with it and back to vanilla. The amount of expected to improvement based on load and sirpoc guidelines, was the same anyway.

I think here's a clear pattern, the guys who have had best success like this have kept it vanilla. That isn't to say another approach can't work, but you risk changing stuff for the sake of it or hitting the wrong intensities by mistake and drifting away from the idea of the training. You then also have the fact of how long can you sustain it for, how much have we changed the mechanical stresses? That is a huge factor overlooked my some.

I actually firmly put myself in the camp of "I can make this better". Then quickly found out, I probably can't. Or at least there's not the body of evidence to say there's huge value in playing around with the balance. I think that's the incredible part of this. We haven't really shifted too much from the original goal posts, over two years ago. Just about everyone with an ego has come along, including me and said this is how you make it better. But, never actually provided hard evidence.

I really love the debate though, it's all quite interesting. But even you have Bakken basically saying for hobby joggers, sirpoc has basically cracked it.

I do however, change my views when you have probably maxed out what you can do on vanilla. That is a different scenario. Totally. But, other than sirpoc graduating his own system, there's barely anyone else who has reached that point. Seemingly, he's already working on the next level, or what to do next on hobby hours - as you have quite a jump I feel to basically training like Bakken. So he's at the grey area in-between.

Just my feelings, long time reader and felt I would just dish up my thoughts.

Like the sound of it. I think just about everyone is looking forward to it, if they have been regulars of the thread or have it on the RSS feeds like me. Might even close down the questions of "how hard should be easy days be" posts. At least we can reply. "Buy the book".

Did a Sub-Threshold session today with my Do-Win PB 4.0.

Better than my Adios Pro 4 and Boston 13! Nice smooth ride and the foam isn't firm or too soft. Just the right feeling.

I now want to try the Do-Win Speedster 3, which is basically the marathon version of the PB Pro.

I wasn't and am not aware of McMillan if I'm honest, but will certainly give it a watch. Thanks for the link!

BMAI Expedition 6.

There is 3 different versions, go for the summer version (yellow) which has a lightweight breathable upper.

Midsole is ATPU.

A lot of people seem to want to push the SubT up further and further but if you look at Sirpoc's training he generally sticks at about 90 mins for the week.

Andy Raynor used an altered version of NSA for his marathon build recently, 8 weeks I believe, and he added longer warm ups and cool downs for most of the sessions (he included his 3rd session in his long run)

Any longer sessions, such as 3 x 7k (roughly 25 mins for him) he did at M pace

Whats wrong with the pb pro as marathon shoe?