I still don't understand. What exactly did TME do wrong in all of this?
I still don't understand. What exactly did TME do wrong in all of this?
Former DIII wrote:
I still don't understand. What exactly did TME do wrong in all of this?
Nothing. Same coach, same problems.
iykyk wrote:
shea it aint so wrote:
Can Tammy (and others in the know) tell us what really went down to cause the disbanding of the Tinman Track Club?
Seems crazy to lose not one but BOTH groups in a matter of months.
"Here is the full letter sent to Coach Schwartz from the Boulder TTC:
Dear Coach,
A lot of us were drawn to you and the idea of Tinman Track Club because we are working professionals who have unfinished stories, and we sought out a coach who had not only the knowledge to provide elite level training, but also individualized training plans in order for each of us to reach our maximum potential.
Over the last several months, without a conversation or a reduction in price, we were moved to a team training plan on Final Surge, and then ultimately had to ask you each day for the workout when our Final Surge was empty. In addition, when we reached out for the workouts the night before, you often made it seem as if it were an inconvenience and that you were too busy to provide this information to us. This resulted in two issues: first, it is difficult to mentally and physically prepare for workouts when we don’t know what we will be doing until we arrive to practice, and secondly, many team members simply stopped asking for workouts or felt as though they were walking on eggshells when they reached out.
Multiple times, we have communicated that it is challenging for the majority of the team to make it to Broomfield for workouts, when our jobs require us to be on the clock at 9 am (or prior). Due to this, for most of the fall, a lot of us missed out on being coached in person by you because we simply could not make it to Broomfield, and you were unwilling to come to Boulder. When the majority of our team, and Tinman Elite, live between Boulder and Longmont, a 30-40 minute commute one way is simply inconvenient and expensive. Furthermore, numerous people joined Tinman Track Club with the expectation to be training with a team in Boulder.
Ultimately, we feel as though we were not a priority to you; we were always falling behind Tinman Elite, your dissertation, and various other high school, junior high, and remote athletes. This is highlighted by confrontations with multiple team members when they asked for bare minimum coaching, you failing to show up to or ask about races that team members competed in throughout the fall, and forcing us to participate in your dissertation, even when it wasn’t to our benefit and quite possibly to the detriment of several team members.
This decision does not come lightly, but we are each making the decision based on our own personal best interest. We wish you the best of luck in your future coaching endeavors.
Sincerely,
Boulder TTC"
The only response to this email was "Good luck!"
Wow, this fully corroborates the TME claims that Tom wasn't fulfilling his coaching responsibilities. It sounds like Tom would rather be a figurehead or a celebrity than a coach.
A true coach would take a lot more pride in their work. Why would you neglect a group that is racing under your name??? If they run poorly it's a bad reflection on you.
Apparently Tom would rather waste time looking at Melania Trump fan pages on social media.
iykyk wrote:
shea it aint so wrote:
Can Tammy (and others in the know) tell us what really went down to cause the disbanding of the Tinman Track Club?
Seems crazy to lose not one but BOTH groups in a matter of months.
"Here is the full letter sent to Coach Schwartz from the Boulder TTC:
Dear Coach,
A lot of us were drawn to you and the idea of Tinman Track Club because we are working professionals who have unfinished stories, and we sought out a coach who had not only the knowledge to provide elite level training, but also individualized training plans in order for each of us to reach our maximum potential.
Over the last several months, without a conversation or a reduction in price, we were moved to a team training plan on Final Surge, and then ultimately had to ask you each day for the workout when our Final Surge was empty. In addition, when we reached out for the workouts the night before, you often made it seem as if it were an inconvenience and that you were too busy to provide this information to us. This resulted in two issues: first, it is difficult to mentally and physically prepare for workouts when we don’t know what we will be doing until we arrive to practice, and secondly, many team members simply stopped asking for workouts or felt as though they were walking on eggshells when they reached out.
Multiple times, we have communicated that it is challenging for the majority of the team to make it to Broomfield for workouts, when our jobs require us to be on the clock at 9 am (or prior). Due to this, for most of the fall, a lot of us missed out on being coached in person by you because we simply could not make it to Broomfield, and you were unwilling to come to Boulder. When the majority of our team, and Tinman Elite, live between Boulder and Longmont, a 30-40 minute commute one way is simply inconvenient and expensive. Furthermore, numerous people joined Tinman Track Club with the expectation to be training with a team in Boulder.
Ultimately, we feel as though we were not a priority to you; we were always falling behind Tinman Elite, your dissertation, and various other high school, junior high, and remote athletes. This is highlighted by confrontations with multiple team members when they asked for bare minimum coaching, you failing to show up to or ask about races that team members competed in throughout the fall, and forcing us to participate in your dissertation, even when it wasn’t to our benefit and quite possibly to the detriment of several team members.
This decision does not come lightly, but we are each making the decision based on our own personal best interest. We wish you the best of luck in your future coaching endeavors.
Sincerely,
Boulder TTC"
The only response to this email was "Good luck!"
Wow, this is telling. I wonder if a similar thing began to happen with Tinman Elite.. getting extra focused on his dissertation, the athletes not getting the attention they needed, feeling like they were walking on eggshells around their coach (which no athlete should feel). I have run on a pro team (very popular) but won't say who, and I would hate if this was the way our team or I individually was treated.
A one-word reply of "Good Luck".. tells a lot. He clearly has his plate too full and did not truly care about his athletes. It's more about him and his success. I think it is becoming more clearer that TME had some good reasons to drop Schwartz. I think the guys should give up the Tinman name asap, but my opinions towards them dropping him may be shifting slightly. They certainly should have handled it more professionally, but it sounds like Schwartz is not always the most caring or professional either with his athletes. You get what you put in sometimes.
Tom knew he’d broken his contract and was avoiding any in person meetings - it’s his own fault that he was fired over the phone. There’s nothing else TME could do when someone refuses to show up to any meeting.
Tinman Track Club knew what they signed up for and that was not in-person training sessions by Tinman himself 100% of the time. If TTC wants full transparency, share the coach/athlete agreement.
God of Wine wrote:
Tinman Track Club knew what they signed up for and that was not in-person training sessions by Tinman himself 100% of the time. If TTC wants full transparency, share the coach/athlete agreement.
The email never stated they requested in person training sessions 100% of the time. Tom was, however, supposed to give them individualized training plans and he FAILED to do so. Instead he gave them a cookie cutter plan. Often times, he never even sent them workouts. They would have to ask him the workout minutes before they were about to start it.
It's SICKENING that Tom was just using them as experiments in his science dissertation. They were glorified guinea pigs for Tom. He should be ashamed.
God of Wine wrote:
Tinman Track Club knew what they signed up for and that was not in-person training sessions by Tinman himself 100% of the time. If TTC wants full transparency, share the coach/athlete agreement.
Where in the letter to him did they say that they were upset about not getting in-person training sessions 100% of the time?
God of Wine wrote:
Tinman Track Club knew what they signed up for and that was not in-person training sessions by Tinman himself 100% of the time. If TTC wants full transparency, share the coach/athlete agreement.
If anyone has signed up for Tinman coaching you'll know you sign three things on the Tinman Endurance Co site:
Current Training and Goals
Coaching Services Registration and Payments
Waiver Form
Since TTC - Boulder was not an online only club like other remote athletes there were different in person agreements.
God of Wine wrote:
Tinman Track Club knew what they signed up for and that was not in-person training sessions by Tinman himself 100% of the time. If TTC wants full transparency, share the coach/athlete agreement.
Even if he didn't agree to in-person coaching, the minimum coaching agreement was not being met i.e. an updated FinalSurge, Customized Training Plan and any monitoring of each athletes progress. This also costs $200/mo
Isn't this the agreement on the website? Here you go.
Personal Training Plans
Following the process described in Creating Your Optimal Training Plan, I will design a highly customized plan for you to follow, based on your abilities, goals and schedule. During the initial weeks, I will monitor your progress and make any needed adjustments to your plan. After that, training plans are limited to one email or 15-minute phone call per month.
Personal Coaching
My Personal Coaching Service begins with your optimal training plan, but provides ongoing support to reach a higher level of performance. Personal Coaching provides opportunities for regular feedback, evaluation of your training and racing progress, adjustments to your training schedule as needed, and access to technical knowledge.
It tends to be particularly useful when you have additional demands on your time due to work or family commitments, become ill or have other unexpected interruptions to your training routine.
As part of the coaching program, I'll set your training workouts and easy run mileage or kilometers in the FinalSurge online calendar. You can then input comments on your training, email me or we can speak on the phone. Based on your feedback, I can offer strategies to improve your progress and racing performance.
iykyk wrote:
shea it aint so wrote:
Can Tammy (and others in the know) tell us what really went down to cause the disbanding of the Tinman Track Club?
Seems crazy to lose not one but BOTH groups in a matter of months.
"Here is the full letter sent to Coach Schwartz from the Boulder TTC:
Dear Coach,
A lot of us were drawn to you and the idea of Tinman Track Club because we are working professionals who have unfinished stories, and we sought out a coach who had not only the knowledge to provide elite level training, but also individualized training plans in order for each of us to reach our maximum potential.
Over the last several months, without a conversation or a reduction in price, we were moved to a team training plan on Final Surge, and then ultimately had to ask you each day for the workout when our Final Surge was empty. In addition, when we reached out for the workouts the night before, you often made it seem as if it were an inconvenience and that you were too busy to provide this information to us. This resulted in two issues: first, it is difficult to mentally and physically prepare for workouts when we don’t know what we will be doing until we arrive to practice, and secondly, many team members simply stopped asking for workouts or felt as though they were walking on eggshells when they reached out.
Multiple times, we have communicated that it is challenging for the majority of the team to make it to Broomfield for workouts, when our jobs require us to be on the clock at 9 am (or prior). Due to this, for most of the fall, a lot of us missed out on being coached in person by you because we simply could not make it to Broomfield, and you were unwilling to come to Boulder. When the majority of our team, and Tinman Elite, live between Boulder and Longmont, a 30-40 minute commute one way is simply inconvenient and expensive. Furthermore, numerous people joined Tinman Track Club with the expectation to be training with a team in Boulder.
Ultimately, we feel as though we were not a priority to you; we were always falling behind Tinman Elite, your dissertation, and various other high school, junior high, and remote athletes. This is highlighted by confrontations with multiple team members when they asked for bare minimum coaching, you failing to show up to or ask about races that team members competed in throughout the fall, and forcing us to participate in your dissertation, even when it wasn’t to our benefit and quite possibly to the detriment of several team members.
This decision does not come lightly, but we are each making the decision based on our own personal best interest. We wish you the best of luck in your future coaching endeavors.
Sincerely,
Boulder TTC"
The only response to this email was "Good luck!"
Wow. I was a supporter of all involved a week ago. Now I've become less of a supporter of Tom.
I don't have time to read through this whole thread. Can someone be a pal and give a super quick summary of why this is now a 41 page thread?
https://y.yarn.co/73295c00-0f93-44ce-b8cb-5a4e02d1f903_text.gifPhil Knight wrote:
I don't have time to read through this whole thread. Can someone be a pal and give a super quick summary of why this is now a 41 page thread?
iykyk wrote:
shea it aint so wrote:
Can Tammy (and others in the know) tell us what really went down to cause the disbanding of the Tinman Track Club?
Seems crazy to lose not one but BOTH groups in a matter of months.
"Here is the full letter sent to Coach Schwartz from the Boulder TTC:
Dear Coach,
A lot of us were drawn to you and the idea of Tinman Track Club because we are working professionals who have unfinished stories, and we sought out a coach who had not only the knowledge to provide elite level training, but also individualized training plans in order for each of us to reach our maximum potential.
Over the last several months, without a conversation or a reduction in price, we were moved to a team training plan on Final Surge, and then ultimately had to ask you each day for the workout when our Final Surge was empty. In addition, when we reached out for the workouts the night before, you often made it seem as if it were an inconvenience and that you were too busy to provide this information to us. This resulted in two issues: first, it is difficult to mentally and physically prepare for workouts when we don’t know what we will be doing until we arrive to practice, and secondly, many team members simply stopped asking for workouts or felt as though they were walking on eggshells when they reached out.
Multiple times, we have communicated that it is challenging for the majority of the team to make it to Broomfield for workouts, when our jobs require us to be on the clock at 9 am (or prior). Due to this, for most of the fall, a lot of us missed out on being coached in person by you because we simply could not make it to Broomfield, and you were unwilling to come to Boulder. When the majority of our team, and Tinman Elite, live between Boulder and Longmont, a 30-40 minute commute one way is simply inconvenient and expensive. Furthermore, numerous people joined Tinman Track Club with the expectation to be training with a team in Boulder.
Ultimately, we feel as though we were not a priority to you; we were always falling behind Tinman Elite, your dissertation, and various other high school, junior high, and remote athletes. This is highlighted by confrontations with multiple team members when they asked for bare minimum coaching, you failing to show up to or ask about races that team members competed in throughout the fall, and forcing us to participate in your dissertation, even when it wasn’t to our benefit and quite possibly to the detriment of several team members.
This decision does not come lightly, but we are each making the decision based on our own personal best interest. We wish you the best of luck in your future coaching endeavors.
Sincerely,
Boulder TTC"
The only response to this email was "Good luck!"
Someone kept receipts. Tammy would’ve been wise to refrain from publicly attacking the team.
.. wrote:
Not sure how Drew and the rest of TME feel about this, but I think this will be a good thing for the group's performances. We'll finally see if it was really Tinman's coaching that was holding Drew back after all.
You mean Drew himself that was holding him back?
the beagle wrote:
Someone kept receipts. Tammy would’ve been wise to refrain from publicly attacking the team.
Are you now implying that Tom didn’t pay taxes on his income from this party?
kipudgy wrote:
Bonkers wrote:
The no swearing rule really reeks of a guy who's used to coaching high schoolers rather than adult pros. Additionally, it's a huge overreach on Tom's part because he had zero to do with TME's social media/youtube branding. Also, it's not his group. It's Drew's group and he was an employee. Tom's role was to provide training guidance, not to function as an authority figure off the track, and maybe he just didn't understand that dynamic.
Here’s the thing your point seems to have blinders on to - the image being created was being sold as ‘TINMAN’... Tom’s moniker for decades! The moniker he was letting the club borrow to get their feet off the ground and help generate revenue so they might have a chance to train and live as ‘professional’ runners when not actually so. When they started to misuse the name (in his view) he spoke up. Makes sense and he had every right to....in fact if it was rubbing him wrong and he didn’t speak up that would be a bigger problem.
So I get that perspective, and maybe that's why he felt like he could exert some control here. I think there's a pretty hefty distinction though between Tom "Tinman" Schwartz, and the "Tinman Elite" brand. Its sorta like when people think about the Los Angeles Lakers brand, no one thinks about the actual lakes in Minnesota where the name comes from.
If Tom had that big an issue with their profanity, then with all due respect that's his problem. Like I said in my first post, he wasn't an authority figure over the team. It's also pretty ridiculous to try and police the off-track behavior of the group when it sounds like he was absent and hands-off for long stretches. That's like a kid who skips practice all week, then shows up on Friday and complains about the coach. You can't have it both ways.
kipudgy wrote:
the beagle wrote:
Someone kept receipts. Tammy would’ve been wise to refrain from publicly attacking the team.
Are you now implying that Tom didn’t pay taxes on his income from this party?
🤦🏻♂️ No
Parlance of the times
the beagle wrote:
kipudgy wrote:
Are you now implying that Tom didn’t pay taxes on his income from this party?
🤦🏻♂️ No
Parlance of the times
🥴
