If you ain’t doping you ain’t winning.
If you ain’t doping you ain’t winning.
The men's final was interesting from a range of perspectives. It was a tough run from Cheruiyot, none of the other runners were in contention if he didn't blow up, Mak came out of the wilderness to do his typical dubious cameo act, the young Norwegian showed again that he doesn't have the finishing weapon to take the championship podium - I doubt that he will do that in this event unless he develops off-the-charts endurance and front-runs like Cheruiyot did. But TC is also faster than Jakob, having run a 1.43 over the 800. Can't see Jakob ever getting near that.
But the times interested me the most. Despite a very hard early pace - 1.51x through 800 - Cheruiyot was only just under 3.30 and the rest of the field were only in the low 3.30's. I would have expected a fully-EPO'd race to have been a good couple of seconds faster all round, with at least 3.27x for the winner and 3.29 plus for the rest. Nothing like the wall-to-wall pr's in the London '12 800. It also wasn't like the spectacle of the women's race, in which Hassan reminded me of Flojo killing it in '88. Micro-dosing in the men's event producing smaller margins but something else going on for some of the women. Bigger responders.
Armstronglivs wrote:
The men's final was interesting from a range of perspectives. It was a tough run from Cheruiyot, none of the other runners were in contention if he didn't blow up, Mak came out of the wilderness to do his typical dubious cameo act, the young Norwegian showed again that he doesn't have the finishing weapon to take the championship podium - I doubt that he will do that in this event unless he develops off-the-charts endurance and front-runs like Cheruiyot did. But TC is also faster than Jakob, having run a 1.43 over the 800. Can't see Jakob ever getting near that.
But the times interested me the most. Despite a very hard early pace - 1.51x through 800 - Cheruiyot was only just under 3.30 and the rest of the field were only in the low 3.30's. I would have expected a fully-EPO'd race to have been a good couple of seconds faster all round, with at least 3.27x for the winner and 3.29 plus for the rest. Nothing like the wall-to-wall pr's in the London '12 800. It also wasn't like the spectacle of the women's race, in which Hassan reminded me of Flojo killing it in '88. Micro-dosing in the men's event producing smaller margins but something else going on for some of the women. Bigger responders.
Tim ran only 3:29 because that is all he had to. Unlike Sifan, he understood that knocking it out of the ballpark, timewise, would only bring suspicion. He could easily have run 3:26-7, but then the backlash would begin. Now if Makhloufi had been training and racing all season in addition to doping, that would have been a real barn-burner.
100m wrote:
Makhloufi did quite well despite the layoff.
Well, he didn't lay off the PEDs. The M1500 was a WWE event.
El Keniano wrote:
You know, other than Tim, I'm really happy that my other two faves in that race, Makh and Lewandowski both medaled. Makh spent some time in Iten and everybody seemed to like him.
Lew left it too late and too many people to go around. I picked him for the WIN but I was not far off.
If it was the usual BS 3:35 "championship" he would have won.
Hayduke wrote:
fsfii wrote:
Ingebrigtsen to get bronze at some point? Seems like Makh will get busted at some point.
I’m getting an Eamon Coghlan feeling. He will do something big in his career like a record in an obscure distance or an indoor record but will never be on the podium
Coghlan has a WC Gold medal
BFD They all usually run around 20 seconds faster than a good junior college or even high school runner. All this doping and scandal for 20 goddam seconds. What the hell is so special about it? Sprints too. Run 11 and you are pretty typical , barely under 10 and you are some sort of near legend . It's one fricken second and doped to the gills. WGAF.
YMMV wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
The men's final was interesting from a range of perspectives. It was a tough run from Cheruiyot, none of the other runners were in contention if he didn't blow up, Mak came out of the wilderness to do his typical dubious cameo act, the young Norwegian showed again that he doesn't have the finishing weapon to take the championship podium - I doubt that he will do that in this event unless he develops off-the-charts endurance and front-runs like Cheruiyot did. But TC is also faster than Jakob, having run a 1.43 over the 800. Can't see Jakob ever getting near that.
But the times interested me the most. Despite a very hard early pace - 1.51x through 800 - Cheruiyot was only just under 3.30 and the rest of the field were only in the low 3.30's. I would have expected a fully-EPO'd race to have been a good couple of seconds faster all round, with at least 3.27x for the winner and 3.29 plus for the rest. Nothing like the wall-to-wall pr's in the London '12 800. It also wasn't like the spectacle of the women's race, in which Hassan reminded me of Flojo killing it in '88. Micro-dosing in the men's event producing smaller margins but something else going on for some of the women. Bigger responders.
Tim ran only 3:29 because that is all he had to. Unlike Sifan, he understood that knocking it out of the ballpark, timewise, would only bring suspicion. He could easily have run 3:26-7, but then the backlash would begin. Now if Makhloufi had been training and racing all season in addition to doping, that would have been a real barn-burner.
I wouldn't entirely agree with that. It looked to me that TC was working really hard over the last 300 and at best might have been only half a sec faster if pushed to the line. Nothing like the tsunami that was Hassan finishing her race. I also think much of the rest of the field behind TC are also on something. Pretty much the only way to be in contention. If not, you'd better get resigned to losing more often. But I suspect most doping now has to be pretty subtle to beat the passport or you go down the Kiprop way and the parade of Kenyan EPO busts. That said, nothing subtle about the recent domination of Hassan. Alberto must be good at the dark arts.
Bad Wigins wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
You know, other than Tim, I'm really happy that my other two faves in that race, Makh and Lewandowski both medaled. Makh spent some time in Iten and everybody seemed to like him.
Lew left it too late and too many people to go around. I picked him for the WIN but I was not far off.
If it was the usual BS 3:35 "championship" he would have won.
Lewandowski wasn't going to win in a genuine race but his bronze didn't surprise. He might only have stolen it if it had been a "tactical" race and a brawl over the last lap. But now hitting his straps in the 1500m at 32 - gimme a break!
El Keniano wrote:
NativeSon wrote:
El Keniano,
Karibu!
Long time man!
We are doing mzuri!
Rhonex is a beast in waiting. HE is fearless.
Margaret Chelimo is the next Hellen Obiri. She can kick!
Asante! He really is. And at his age he'll only get better. Very excited for his future.
I always confused Kipruto and Kiptum because they both arrived on the scene about the same time, showing superhuman levels of improvement. I wonder why?
Armstronglivs wrote:
I wouldn't entirely agree with that. It looked to me that TC was working really hard over the last 300 and at best might have been only half a sec faster if pushed to the line. Nothing like the tsunami that was Hassan finishing her race. I also think much of the rest of the field behind TC are also on something. Pretty much the only way to be in contention. If not, you'd better get resigned to losing more often. But I suspect most doping now has to be pretty subtle to beat the passport or you go down the Kiprop way and the parade of Kenyan EPO busts. That said, nothing subtle about the recent domination of Hassan. Alberto must be good at the dark arts.
It must be hard for the testers to get an accurate ABP for Hassan when she divides her time between the USA (as a Dutch athlete) and remote South Africa (no doubt she spends time in Ethiopia too, but is careful not to post it on social media).
Presumably and hopefully she's now going to be tested a hell of a lot more in the next year, and it will be interesting indeed to see if she slows down and becomes human again.
It's always odd that these athletes who can suddenly compete on another level at every distance in their mid-twenties, never really progress further after a year or so. Aouita, Mo Farah, Hassan. Of course, we don't yet know if Hassan will continue to get even faster. It will be crazy if she does (in terms of crazy times resulting), but equally odd if she doesn't. How do you suddenly max out an athlete into GOAT territory from one or two years of training in their mid-twenties? Obviously only doping does that.
That Subway guy was calling Lewandowski months ago
June 2019:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&thread=9441215&id=9441222
October 2018
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8176486&page=4
Subway Surfers wrote:
That Subway guy was calling Lewandowski months ago
June 2019:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&thread=9441215&id=9441222October 2018
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8176486&page=4
Nice calls.
Coevett wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I wouldn't entirely agree with that. It looked to me that TC was working really hard over the last 300 and at best might have been only half a sec faster if pushed to the line. Nothing like the tsunami that was Hassan finishing her race. I also think much of the rest of the field behind TC are also on something. Pretty much the only way to be in contention. If not, you'd better get resigned to losing more often. But I suspect most doping now has to be pretty subtle to beat the passport or you go down the Kiprop way and the parade of Kenyan EPO busts. That said, nothing subtle about the recent domination of Hassan. Alberto must be good at the dark arts.
It must be hard for the testers to get an accurate ABP for Hassan when she divides her time between the USA (as a Dutch athlete) and remote South Africa (no doubt she spends time in Ethiopia too, but is careful not to post it on social media).
Presumably and hopefully she's now going to be tested a hell of a lot more in the next year, and it will be interesting indeed to see if she slows down and becomes human again.
It's always odd that these athletes who can suddenly compete on another level at every distance in their mid-twenties, never really progress further after a year or so. Aouita, Mo Farah, Hassan. Of course, we don't yet know if Hassan will continue to get even faster. It will be crazy if she does (in terms of crazy times resulting), but equally odd if she doesn't. How do you suddenly max out an athlete into GOAT territory from one or two years of training in their mid-twenties? Obviously only doping does that.
Her rise and rise reminds me somewhat of the incredible season that Dibaba had a few years back. That changed when her coach came under scrutiny. The same may well occur with Hassan after the fall of Salazar.
Subway Surfers wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
Asante! He really is. And at his age he'll only get better. Very excited for his future.
I always confused Kipruto and Kiptum because they both arrived on the scene about the same time, showing superhuman levels of improvement. I wonder why?
Now, who's a clever boy? Here's a biscuit. ?
Ovettoe wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Hopefully - he wont be able to hide away and go full throttle for 3 years with Tokyo in 10 months time.
Tim ran a brilliant and brave race, and I'm happy for him, delighted if he's clean. But let's not forget the ZDF investigation and the Manangoi's mysterious fall from grace this season. If they go down, so does Tim.
Hi Coevett we all know you are some deep follower of our sport. You might be interested in the medals distribution 800m and up:
East African origin: 11 - 7 - 5
Nort africa : 0 - 1 - 1
Europe: 0 - 1 - 2 (including Ingebrigtsen and Britain: 0 - 0 - 0)
But we all know the reasons: east africans dope heavily (they not even have to train hard) whereas the white Europeans are clean and don't even know how to dope.
How do the medals not add up to the same amount? Also Brazier isn’t East African...
Les wrote:
Muir yet again fails to win a medal at a major championships. Some of this is simply the competition, but Muir even at this stage of her career, doesn't seem to know what her body is and isn't capable of doing. Again and again she goes faster than her body is capable of going, blows up and finishes out of the medals. Simpson has a medal collection because she knows what she's capable of and what she's not capable of, and races accordingly. When your career is over you want something tangible like a medal, not just say "I tried my best to win and came up short."
Did you forget that Muir didn't race at all from DL London til now with a hamstring injury? Those injuries don't allow you to do as much speed. She has good strength (8:26 3k). Her best shot was to hold on to Hassan for as long as possible and hope only one person passed her down the stretch to hold on to a medal. I was actually kind of shocked she finished to close to her 3:55.25 PB despite the injuries and lack of racing. I'm sorry, but fully healthy Muir might have gotten 2nd in this race. She closed a 3:58 race in 57 and can time trial very fast. She had the fastest PB going into the race.
If you think there TC is clean than you have you head buried in the sand. Same with Hassan. Same with Centro in 2016.
Hayduke wrote:
fsfii wrote:
Ingebrigtsen to get bronze at some point? Seems like Makh will get busted at some point.
I’m getting an Eamon Coghlan feeling. He will do something big in his career like a record in an obscure distance or an indoor record but will never be on the podium
Coghlan was the first 5000m World Champion.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Tactics changing, have to be able to finish off a fast pace. Need to be prepared to run two rounds at 3:35, and then run sub-3:30 in the finals. Future is here.
I desperately hope that is correct. The dawdling laps at the beginning need to be a thing of the past. Get the hook if they even attempt it.
The world needs more Cheruiyot, more Chepkoech, more Ayana, and more Hassan from the version that ran this 1500. Just like swimming needs more Katie Ledecky.
Get out there and devastate the field. There should be 5 or 6 in each race applying that style and able to deliver. Instead we've got maybe one and then a bunch of pathetic scared loiterers who are trying to pick up a cheap lesser share.
I had to laugh after the semifinal when Craig Engels said he wanted to see what he could do with Cheruiyot in the final. I hope he enjoyed that view from 30 meters in the rear. That race needs to be a lesson to the American running contingent in general that you can't continue to apply the lazy insulting stretch running tactics. Clayton Murphy picked up a cheap bronze in 2016 800 so all of a sudden that tactic was perfectly fine again. What an ignorant farce. Fortunately Brazier succeeded from the front and the lurkers did nothing.
I want the Kenyans and Ethiopians and Ugandans and whoever to pile up these races 6 or 8 strong with front running demons. Make the Americans deal with it. Otherwise you've got nitwits like Courtney Frerichs somehow thinking it is perfectly brilliant to go 2 years practicing like Allen Iverson.