Official thread to discuss moderation policies

wejo · 2019-07-09T11:11:03-04:00

I said perhaps we should start a thread to discuss how to best moderate Letsrun.com and here it is. What can we do to improve? Moderating is often as much art as science but if want to see what we aim to do with moderation, perhaps the best place to start is our terms of service which I'm posting excerpts at bottom. We don't vouch that we read every post on LetsRun.com but moderators do read every post reported to us via the "Report a Post" button. We are strong believers in the right to post anonymously but for what type of thread should and when we limit that? There are some downsides to anonymity, but it also helps bring out some things that are good that would not get said if the poster was worried about being tracked down in real life. Ideally we want a civil LetsRun where there is an exchange of ideas, some you may not like, but that is done respectfully. We like all communities come up short of that goal. And the vast, vast majority of posters are positive contributors. I'd say it's less than .1% of the posters who cause the most trouble. Terms of Service section on content: You understand that LetsRun.com does not pre-screen content but it may remove content at its sole discretion for any reason whatsoever. If you would like to suggest that something be removed, please use the "report a post" function or email LetsRun.com at remove@letsrun.com but LetsRun.com does not have to remove any content and may or may not agree to your request. Every post that is reported by the "report a post" function is reviewed be a moderator. There is no guarantee other posts are read by a human moderator. Guidelines for posts: Be civil- While we don't pre-screen content we want to have a community where ideas are exchanged in a civil manner and people feel open to post. Please be civil and use the report a post function. Types of posts that will be removed: a) Violent/Pornographic posts Posts that encourage violence, abuse or harrassment will be removed. Posts with graphic violence or adult content will be removed. b) Hateful conduct: Posts that threaten, or harass other people on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, religious affiliation, age, or disability will be removed. c) Private personal information: Posts that expose other people's private information (such as home phone number and address) without their express authorization and permission will be removed. However, you acknowledge that your identity is not a secret whether or not you reveal your name in your posts. Your IP address is tracked. As a result others, including LetsRun.com, may be able to figure out who you are and thus your identity may be revealed to others. d) Spam/Advertisements The message board forum(s) are not designed to serve as a place where one makes posts that are nothing more than glorified advertisements (i.e. anything promoting another website, product, etc.). Posts that serve as advertisements are likely to be deleted. If you would like to reach the targeted audience of dedicated running aficionados that come to LetsRun.com, we suggest you consider advertising with the web-site or at the very least contacting LetsRun.com before making posts that are advertisements. For more information contact LetsRun.com at advertise@letsrun.com. e) Copyright/trademark violations Do not steal other's work. We support the concept of fair use and parody, but not IP theft. We get complaints from both sides - ie we delete too much stuff and we don't delete enough. https://www.letsrun.com/forum/TOS.php

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6 years ago 07/09/2019 3:51pm EDT

re: dunes runner

dunes runner wrote:
wejo wrote:
We've said we will always allow drug discussions and even speculation.
That's an extremely bad policy, which leads to character assassinations about EVERYONE.
"Assassinate my favorite runner huh, well then I'll assassinate yours."
No one is except from such treatment, and there is absolutely no good that comes from it.
Plus it leads to really bad outcomes, tainted testing, people's lives ruined, even death, and yet still it continues.

When we were in college/whatnot too many people in the upper echelons of the sport turned a blind eye to doping. We are not going to let it happen again.

With doping there is not a presumption of innocence in how athletes are treated. Without notice athletes are forced to pee in front of another person.

Lance Armstrong went after those who accused him of doping. We used to get the nastiest emails from people for allowing Lance Armstrong speculation. Should we not have allowed those threads?

People said I was doping when I ran. I viewed it as the ultimate compliment.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:00pm EDT

re: wejo

wejo wrote:
dunes runner wrote:
That's an extremely bad policy, which leads to character assassinations about EVERYONE.
"Assassinate my favorite runner huh, well then I'll assassinate yours."
No one is except from such treatment, and there is absolutely no good that comes from it.
Plus it leads to really bad outcomes, tainted testing, people's lives ruined, even death, and yet still it continues.
When we were in college/whatnot too many people in the upper echelons of the sport turned a blind eye to doping. We are not going to let it happen again.
With doping there is not a presumption of innocence in how athletes are treated. Without notice athletes are forced to pee in front of another person.
Lance Armstrong went after those who accused him of doping. We used to get the nastiest emails from people for allowing Lance Armstrong speculation. Should we not have allowed those threads?
People said I was doping when I ran. I viewed it as the ultimate compliment.

Right, but would you tolerate message board threads accusing you of doping? You bring us some valid points, but where is the line?

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:04pm EDT

re: the gentleman

the gentleman wrote:
Right, but would you tolerate message board threads accusing you of doping?

He does/did...

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:07pm EDT

re: Hardloper

Hardloper wrote:
the gentleman wrote:
Right, but would you tolerate message board threads accusing you of doping?
He does/did...

Oh, okay. Wejo dopes. And so does Malmo.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:10pm EDT

re: the gentleman

the gentleman wrote:
wejo wrote:
When we were in college/whatnot too many people in the upper echelons of the sport turned a blind eye to doping. We are not going to let it happen again.
With doping there is not a presumption of innocence in how athletes are treated. Without notice athletes are forced to pee in front of another person.
Lance Armstrong went after those who accused him of doping. We used to get the nastiest emails from people for allowing Lance Armstrong speculation. Should we not have allowed those threads?
People said I was doping when I ran. I viewed it as the ultimate compliment.
Right, but would you tolerate message board threads accusing you of doping? You bring us some valid points, but where is the line?

People have accused him of doping. Look up how he responded.

wejo wrote:
Someone emailed me asking why this was deleted. I never saw it and think it is great.
I have restored it. I assume the mods deleted it because they thought the OP was a troll.
But a thread like this is the ultimate compliment. From #2 guy on my high school team to being accused of blood doping. It means I wasn't a total scrub at running:)
Thank you!
And I would like credit for beating Abdi when he let up at the line. And while you're pumping my horn how about saying I "mixed it up with Meb". I was right with him at Nationals in the 10k with a mile to go before he blew my doors off.
After my wife watched Icarus she turned to me and said "you could have been Olympic champion if you doped."
The OP left off my ruse of pretending to just like "caffeine" before races. Every doper knows to make them think you are just pushing the grey area and then go over the top with blood doping, etc. Plus I did see Dr. Galea one time as well.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/health/nutrition/26best.html

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9243313

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:13pm EDT

re: BergLaufer

Okay, then if we can speculate as to whether Wejo dopes, we should be able to do the same abou Malmo. And anyone else. Or does it depend on the personal preference of who is being speculated about? This isn't a purely hypothetical question. It will affect the moderation policies of the boards.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:14pm EDT

re: malmo

Wonderful we have a mod supporting the kind of insidious race baiting that slowly corrodes the standard of discourse on this website! Certain people's posts provide zero value - there is a line on the globe (or maybe the spectrum) that decides the entirety of their opinions. Just because they retroactively substantiate opinions by some other logic doesn't disguise the underlying point you attempt to force across these forums. There are three people I would ban from this board that would immediately fix 95% of the useless "discussion."

malmo wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Not sure if your idea of 'hateful content' is the same as mine (you mention 'racism' which, while real racism is truly bad, we know the term is often abused by doping apologists to try to close down any discussion of the Kenyan problem), but I do agree that genuinely hateful stuff is left up for too long.
.
I've explicitly used your situation as an example for the Brojos when false charges of racism are being hurled at you in an attempt to shut your opinion down. Your plight has not gone unnoticed.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:15pm EDT

re: the gentleman

the gentleman wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
He does/did...
Oh, okay. Wejo dopes. And so does Malmo.

So do I. Cool story bruh.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:16pm EDT

re: Vermont FTW

Wejo, if there was any doubt that at least one moderator condones racist posts on the boards, look:

Vermont FTW wrote:
wejo wrote:
b) Hateful conduct: Posts that threaten, or harass other people on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, religious affiliation, age, or disability will be removed.
Why is Coevett allowed to post his racist, anti-Kenyan, anti-East-African crap here every day, several times a day? You have been alerted before and allow him to continue with this behavior.
I have two teenage sons who run and read these forums and I find it highly inappropriate that such behavior is allowed on the most comprehensive running website.
It's disgusting. Look at his harassment of a minor, Edward Zakayo, for example. Someone highlighted that but it just goes on and on.

and later:

malmo wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Not sure if your idea of 'hateful content' is the same as mine (you mention 'racism' which, while real racism is truly bad, we know the term is often abused by doping apologists to try to close down any discussion of the Kenyan problem), but I do agree that genuinely hateful stuff is left up for too long.
.
I've explicitly used your situation as an example for the Brojos when false charges of racism are being hurled at you in an attempt to shut your opinion down. Your plight has not gone unnoticed.

His "plight" has not gone unnoticed? "False charges of racism"?

Do you need a list of daily racist posts from that or other users (nothing to do with the terrible PED abuse problem in Kenya) to understand it?

How is this possible that one of your moderators protects racist posts?

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:23pm EDT

re: wejo

To improve..

Hmm..

Maybe leave it the way it is, but, keep track of the trolls.

I just started a thread about my screenplay.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9485400

Four responses from trolls.

One of whom calls themselves 'Film Rep' and has trolled me persistently.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:29pm EDT

re: Greg

Greg wrote:
To improve..
Hmm..
Maybe leave it the way it is, but, keep track of the trolls.
I just started a thread about my screenplay.
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9485400
Four responses from trolls.
One of whom calls themselves 'Film Rep' and has trolled me persistently.

I know Film Rep. Great guy. You should listen to his advice.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:29pm EDT

re: LoneStarXC

LoneStarXC wrote:
Like others said, I think some more transparency would be good. Like, to know who the mods are.
One suggestion I have, for the “report a post” function, I would like to be able to explain why I think a post should be deleted. Sometimes when I’ve reported posts that I thought were misogynistic or sexist and they were allowed to stay up. I think because a lot of posts get flagged, the moderators sometimes don’t have time to carefully read the posts, so they sometimes might just get a quick glance. Having an explanation of why something should be deleted might make the process easier and quicker for the moderators.

Well that and the fact that they are all white males.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:31pm EDT

re: the gentleman

You should tell him to post under a registered handle to be taken seriously.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:45pm EDT

re: wejo

1. Transparency (by the moderators) is not a good thing. Keep the trolls guessing.

2. That said, moderating should be done with a light hand.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:53pm EDT

re: Greg

Greg wrote:
To improve..
Hmm..
Maybe leave it the way it is, but, keep track of the trolls.
I just started a thread about my screenplay.
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9485400
Four responses from trolls.
One of whom calls themselves 'Film Rep' and has trolled me persistently.

Please ban people who spam the boards with thread after thread after thread of the exact same crap.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:53pm EDT

re: alanson

no clarification as to whether post IP sources are visible from the internet?

6 years ago 07/09/2019 4:58pm EDT

re: the gentleman

the gentleman wrote:
Greg wrote:
To improve..
Hmm..
Maybe leave it the way it is, but, keep track of the trolls.
I just started a thread about my screenplay.
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9485400
Four responses from trolls.
One of whom calls themselves 'Film Rep' and has trolled me persistently.
I know Film Rep. Great guy. You should listen to his advice.

Film Rep should have been banned.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 5:03pm EDT

re: Ctrl+Alt+Del

Ctrl+Alt+Del wrote:
Wejo, if there was any doubt that at least one moderator condones racist posts on the boards, look:
His "plight" has not gone unnoticed? "False charges of racism"?
Do you need a list of daily racist posts from that or other users (nothing to do with the terrible PED abuse problem in Kenya) to understand it?
How is this possible that one of your moderators protects racist posts?

Easy - letsrun itself promotes racism, almost openly.

Some of his posts - yes, from the poor guy who - according to the mods here - gets falsely accused of being a racist:

Coevett wrote:
To be frank, I would guess that at most 5% of white runners are doping, whereas amongst elite African/Arabs the figure is closer to 95%

Coevett wrote:
Oh and there is a culture of doping in black American track and field, I think you'll find.

Coevett wrote:
What you're going to do instead is shove your black dildos up your behind whilst fantasizing about Konchellah in action.

Coevett wrote:
You really do have quite the ebony fetish

Coevett wrote:
You get excited, probably sexually, at the sight of lithe ebony men pumped up on drugs

Coevett wrote:
A long time ago I had a similar incident in the locker room in a gym in London, except the black dude was clearly doing it on purpose, probably because I was white and he was a racist. He was getting dressed after his workout and I wanted to get into my locker which was next to his, but couldn't because he had the door to his open so wide blocking it. I asked him politely if he minded if I got into my locker and he barked at me to 'wait'. So I just swung his door and opened mine to which he very aggressively swung it back causing it to hit my wrist sharply. Had to unload on the twat and knocked him stupid, but it got me banned from the gym.

Coevett wrote:
I beat up the black guy in the gym in self-defence after he assaulted me in a likely racially motivated attack.

Serious question, Wejo - are those posts from a non-racist? Is that poster a person who should be spreading his hate on letsrun?

6 years ago 07/09/2019 5:04pm EDT

re: alanson

In the world of message boards, there is really only one way to keep the trolls away. You have to review all the posts before they are seen by the public. Anything short of that is just going to be a game of whack a troll with endless disputes over how the board is being moderated. I used to frequent a site that had very lively discussions about local business issues. It was anonymous if you wanted to be. The site got trolled badly when the topic of a dispute over a real estate development came up in a thread. It was so bad that lawsuits were filed. It turned out that the troll was actually one of the people that filed suit against the website claiming defamation. The owner of the website got the judge to toss the lawsuit and order the troll to pay attorney's fees. The owner of the site decided that they would screen all posts from that point on. It definitely slowed things down a lot, but it was actually a much better message board from that point on. There were no more overt trolls. People stopped trying so hard to pick apart other people's posts with the quote function because the delay meant that the discussion would probably have moved on by the time the post got reviewed. So, people focused a lot more on making solid points and less about having tit for tat battles with other posters. And the best part was that there were never any posts about the moderators and what got deleted v what didn't.

6 years ago 07/09/2019 5:33pm EDT

I have noticed three things:

1. Politically progressive posts/threads are far more likely than equally politically conservative posts to be deleted. Might it be possible to create a special category of posts that show up *only* on the politics board -- unobjectionable posts that would otherwise be deleted for being too progressive or for exceeding the quota one left-leaning thread per topic?

2. One moderator sometimes seems to delete most of the 100,000 posts. I happen to love his contributions to the site, so I've gotten over the fact that he used to delete anything I wrote that mentioned his name.

3. The report a post feature works beautifully 99% of the time. Nice work, mods!

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