Kipchoge dominance is simply too good to be true

He ran 2:03:05 in Paris (2nd fastest in the world at that time) while not wearing the Vaporflys. This is starkly false.

Sports psychology isn't snake oil - it is a legitimate facet to training and performance. Whatever struggles Eliud had with this years ago, he's certainly overcome them and wields his mentality perfectly in marathons. Oh, and he is a genetic freak. May or may not be doping, but I'd say the same for others in the top 10 so I don't think that is what differentiates him, and I do not think he has the sophisticated doping program that Lance had.

Runningart2004 wrote:

https://www.si.com/vault/1997/04/14/225484/over-the-edge-aware-that-drug-testing-is-a-sham-athletes-to-rely-more-than-ever-on-banned-performance-enhancers

A scenario, from a 1995 poll of 198 sprinters, swimmers, powerlifters and other assorted athletes, most of them U.S.

Olympians or aspiring Olympians: You are offered a banned performance-enhancing substance, with two guarantees: 1) You

will not be caught. 2) You will win. Would you take the substance?

One hundred and ninety-five athletes said yes; three said no.

Scenario II: You are offered a banned performance-enhancing substance that comes with two guarantees: 1) You will not be caught. 2) You will win every competition you enter for the next

five years, and then you will die from the side effects of the

substance. Would you take it?

More than half the athletes said yes.

Yes but in some countries with much better testing there's a much higher chance you will be caught so it's not a level playing field

Ok so explain the Breaking 2 project.

7 months of preparation, testing, samples being taken, etc under the Nike Breaking 2 team. The end result 2:00.25.

So 2:01:40 and 2:02:36 are UNDER his personal best.

Woudln't they have detected something during Breaking 2?

the man is a freak of nature. Plain and simple.

This Member of Parliament for Kenya speaks for Tyrone, El K, and all the many others who think I'm a racist for suggesting that Kenyan distance success is not due to innate genetic superiority but endemic well documented doping. In fact, if we didn't know that El K was a white boy from Essex, I'd suspect that this might actually be him!

https://twitter.com/Chepkut_William/status/1122828041447669760

RobbReport343 wrote:

Ok so explain the Breaking 2 project.

7 months of preparation, testing, samples being taken, etc under the Nike Breaking 2 team. The end result 2:00.25.

So 2:01:40 and 2:02:36 are UNDER his personal best.

Woudln't they have detected something during Breaking 2?

the man is a freak of nature. Plain and simple.

no no no. you have it all wrong. Those wearing tinfoil hats will tell you that Nike as part of the Breaking 2 project doped him to the gills. It's a big conspiracy. The dems and liberals are in on it as well. They want to keep the white man down.

Who do you think is more likely to be doping, Chris Froome or Eliud Kipchoge?

Anonimo veneziano wrote:

I repeat: Kipchoge and other top runners like him, training in altitude with a lot of budget are on HIF stabilizers like roxadustat, a safe drug whose clinic trials are named by mountains famous for cycling like Pyrenees

Yeah, I’ve wondered if HIF stabilizers are the gene manipulators Jos Hermens condones. Just really good vitamins, right? Not cheating, right? Same thing as altitude tents, right?

Coevett wrote:

This Member of Parliament for Kenya speaks for Tyrone, El K, and all the many others who think I'm a racist for suggesting that Kenyan distance success is not due to innate genetic superiority but endemic well documented doping. In fact, if we didn't know that El K was a white boy from Essex, I'd suspect that this might actually be him!

https://twitter.com/Chepkut_William/status/1122828041447669760

Claiming other are "racist" whilst also claiming that your own kin is "genetically wired" differently. Honk honk.

EK is now nearly as dominant as Bill Rodgers was in the 70/80s

Phantasy Star wrote:

Coevett wrote:

This Member of Parliament for Kenya speaks for Tyrone, El K, and all the many others who think I'm a racist for suggesting that Kenyan distance success is not due to innate genetic superiority but endemic well documented doping. In fact, if we didn't know that El K was a white boy from Essex, I'd suspect that this might actually be him!

Claiming other are "racist" whilst also claiming that your own kin is "genetically wired" differently. Honk honk.

He didn't mention race so what's your point?

Shunpo wrote:

His PED is the shoes. Kipchoge never broke 2:04 before he put the shoes on. Simple.

He ran 2:03 flat at Berlin in normal flats

Never trust the Daily Mail.

Here's the thing about doping:

Ryan Hall ran 2:06:17 at London. He is, by all accounts, a pretty huge goofball who made some very, very questionable training decisions in his prime, which only lasted for about six years. His 5k pr is 13:16 and he's never broken 28 minutes in a 10k.

So let's stipulate that he was clean just for the purposes of argument. Do I find it that surprising that there are a good number of people who might be more naturally talented and who make better training decisions that can consistently run ~5-10 seconds/mile faster than him over a full marathon, without PEDs? I really don't.

Then think about a guy like Dick Beardsley, who basically had zero natural talent (his first marathon was 2:47!) and ran 2:08 35 years ago. I would be shocked if people weren't beating that time by 5-6 minutes at this point.

That doesn't mean that there isn't a ton of PED usage in elite distance running. I just don't find the times themselves indicative.

You are not very bright. Dick Beardsley did not run 2:08:35 but he had a ton of natural talent.

im with alan wrote:

Again, couldn't agree more with you Alan. It's all about providing for your family and achieving a better life. I've always said this about minor league baseball players. The difference between a triple A baseball player and the major leagues is literally millions of dollars. These guys have all the incentive in the world to cheat and make it to that next level. Nothing is worse than being just below the cusp in something that can provide almost infinite rewards. If I was a triple A ball player making 40k a year, you better believe I'm hoping on the juice to get to that next level. It's not about records. Did you see Mo Farah's multi million dollar house in Oregon? You think he does this simply to set records and win. Give me a break.

If you take a purely logical approach to the issue you would be an idiot not to dope. The average working stiff works for 40 years and, if he earns $50K a year, he will end up with $2M from a lifetime's work. The reported average salary of an MLB player is $4.38 million, or more than the working stiff would earn in two lifetimes. However, the average salary of a Triple A ball player is about $40K or about 1% of his major league colleague.

Now if you were a Triple A player and had the opportunity to get into the major league through doping you would probably take it. Heck, even if you were told that after 5 years you will be busted and labeled a drug cheat you would probably still take it. Why? Because by that time you will have earned over $21M more than you would have earned in the minors, also you would have earned in five years what it would have taken your father 400 years to earn. For a couple of months after your bust your name would be dirt but after a year everyone would have forgotten. Meanwhile, the money is still compounding in your bank account.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Yes but in some countries with much better testing there's a much higher chance you will be caught so it's not a level playing field

True, but the countries where you are less likely to be caught are also the less sophisticated when it comes to setting up doping programs. I would suspect that many of them are following an ad hoc program with mixed results. Whereas in the western world there is greater access to specialists, both in the medical and legal fields, and so a greater ability to exploit TUEs, to micro-dose. and to get the taper before competition just right. I suspect the playing field is more level than people think. It is more a case of: Is the side of the field with grass better than the side of the field with AstroTurf?

Kipchoge's form is the best I have ever seen. He has almost no vertical bounce. And those shoes must be doing something.

He may be doping, may not be, but, even without drugs, he would be very fast.

You are not very bright. Dick Beardsley ran 2:08:53, so probably the poster you replied to just made a typo.

Anyway, +1 to 113's post. Excellent, simple analysis.