Dirk Nowitzki - Is he the greatest white basketball player ever? Here are my top ten ...

The best dunker is that kid from the 76ers, Max McClung, who won this year's NBA dunk contest.

I watched this video over & over again - he's alien. McClung is only 6'2" but must have a vertical jump off the charts.

There will always be arguments when "best" lists are compiled but this is actually pretty good. I'd probably have McHale cracking the top 10 and would add several more to the honorable mention group. Maravich ( couldn't do it by himself on crap teams, maybe should be top 10), Walton (top 10 if not for injuries), Doncic (still early but headed in the right direction), Jokic (similar curve to Doncic), and maybe a few others. But overall good effort.

At this point, I'd still have Bird, Stockton, and West as the top three, but would now add Nikola Jokic and Luka Doncic at four and five, because Jokic already has two MVP's, is likely to win a third this year (though no finals) and is the best passing center of all-time by far, while Doncic is a triple double machine (as is Jokic, close to averaging one for the season) and if anything is at another level in the playoffs, unstoppable despite slow and can't jump (skills and footwork are ultimately more important).

Most of you jokers don’t have Sabonis in your top 10. He is EASILY top 2 among white players ever, and for me he’s number 1 ahead of Larry Bird. I don’t think there was a single moment in time when Bird was the best white player on the planet, even when he won three straight MVP awards. Just shows how much most of you dorks know about global basketball.

I bet getting satisfaction from thinking you’re smarter than everyone is a big part of your personality. Bird was probably better than Sabonis throughout his entire career, and obviously in the early 80s when Arvydas was a teen. Sabonis was undoubtedly great, but it’s convenient for you that there’s no good way to compare him in his prime with most all the best players in the world.

And if Jokic wins his 3rd MVP he ties Bird!

Jokic is a solid #2 - arguably even #1.

Jokic's point differential is a +13/-12 - +13 when he plays...-12 when he's out (look what happened last night when he sat out in the game against the Pelicans - the Nuggets lost 107-88!)

You won't find any other player with that kind of number - that's why he's a 2-time MVP! (and joins the likes of Karl Malone, Tim Duncan, Steph Curry and Giannis as a two-time NBA MVP).

Doncic isn't that great - no MVPs. And Mavericks are a pathetic 37-40 - 14.5 GB & only holding the 11th seed! Lol.

The Nuggets sit atop 1st place in the West at 51-25.

Basketball is a team sport & Doncic is pathetic as a team player.

During Bird’s first few years in the NBA, I think Bill Walton was the better player (although he was dealing with injury problems, he was the league MVP right before Bird came into the league). Sabonis was on the Soviet team in 1982 when he was 17, so certainly by the time Bird hit his peak Sabonis was already a force. I saw Magic and Bird play when I was a kid and I also saw some of the 1988 Olympics games including some USSR games (first I ever watched). If you listed to people from that era recollect Sabonis at his best, and look at highlights of what he could do, there’s no question in my mind he’s one of the top 2 white players ever.

Jokic is like a smaller, much less athletic, and worse defender version of Sabonis, yet people here are hyping him and not even mentioning Sabonis, that’s what irks me. Maybe it’s because they only know him from his NBA days, but he was a completely different player before his debilitating injuries. Portland used their first round pick on him even though they knew that even if he made it to the league, it wouldn’t be for many years, gf that’s how good he was.

Anyway if you want to put Bird at #1, that’s fair, but to list people like John Stockton and not Sabonis (which many people have done in this thread) is just ignorant.

Tom Chambers, Dan Marjerle, jerry west, Kevin McHale, John Stockton, Chris Mullin, Bill Laimbeer, tony kukoc........

Bird at #6 is an obvious troll attempt.

Sure, I agree Sabonis should be mentioned in the top 10. However, he's not better than Jokic - who I have as a solid #2 behind Bird.

Jokic is smaller than Sabonis (6-11 vs 7-3) but is far more athletic & a better defender than Sabonis ever was. Jokic brings ball down playing like a point guard which is unheard by a center.

Jokic is a 2-time back to back MVP! (possibly on his way to a 3rd) . Sabonis - no MVPs in his 7 yr career in the NBA.

Sabonis career average totals (7 yrs) are 12 PPG, 7 RPG & 2 APG. His career FG% is 50%, career 3 pt% - 32%

Jokic's numbers in 7 seasons so far are 19.7 PPG, 10 RPG & 6 APG. Jokic's shoots 54% FG & 34% 3 pt.

This season Jokic is averaging 25/12/10 (last season was 27/14/8).

Jokic this season is shooting 63% from the field 39% from 3 pt range.

Jokic this season has 29 triple-doubles & 56 double-doubles!

Jokic needs 3 more triple doubles to break the legendary Wilt Chamberlain's season record!

Jokic does it all - he plays point, he plays shooting guard, he rebounds with the best, he shoots 3's with the best. He's alien.

The 6-11 point guard: 🏀

Jokic more athletic than Sabonis? Better defender? Jokic is one of the worst athletes in the league, Sabonis was one of the most athletic big men to ever play the game. Stop referring to Sabonis in the NBA, he was a decade out of his prime when he came into the league.

From Bill Walton, who knows a thing or two about basketball:

"He probably had a quadruple-double at halftime, and his coach, Alexander Gomelsky, didn't even start him in the second half," Walton told Grantland.com. "You might as well just rewrite the rules of basketball after watching him play in the first half. He could do everything. He had the skills of Larry Bird and Pete Maravich. He had the athleticism of Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar], and he could shoot the 3-point shot. He could pass, run the floor, dribble. We should have carried out a plan in the early 1980s to kidnap him and bring him back right then."

Interesting thread. Curiously missing my favorite player -Petrovic. A scoring machine. Just an overall incredible player.

I stopped watching basketball after the incident.

We're talking about the NBA here - not FIBA or those European leagues that no one in the States that follows the NBA cares about.

Your hero Sabonis during his 7 yr NBA career couldn't win a MVP or team championship.

From Isiah Thomas, who knows a thing or two about basketball:

"I look at Jokic as a 7-foot point guard"

You had a valid point that Sabonis, based on his stats & performance during his 7 yrs at Portland, is worthy of a top ten. But to claim that Sabonis is better than the 2-time MVP Jokic is simply trolling. 😉

The thread was NOT about the NBA, look at the original post, where does it say anything about the NBA? Do you not consider Messi as one of the soccer greats because he hasn’t been a star in the MLS? I’m talking about 1980s Sabonis, the player he was in the NBA after his injuries wasn’t remotely close. He had basically no mobility in the NBA (like Jokic lol), but pre-injuries he was an incredible athlete. I don’t think Jokic could shatter backboards with a one-handed dunk or leap over guys like David Robinson for putback slams.

Wow, nice to see someone who knows what they are talking about.

Jokic is right up there with Bird. He will probably end up #1 on this list by a wide margin if his career continues on its current trajectory. In fact, he could end up being in the argument for GOAT before he is through.

Doncic is very, very different. Great scorer, human highlight reel . . . People see him making 3 pointers in game highlights and it doesn't register with them that he is a career 34% 3-pt shooter. Etc.

But the advanced metrics do not lie. He is nowhere close to Jokic in his overall impact on the game. And he is a weak link on defense - something that cannot be true for a true great.

Great player. I'd love to have him on my team. But hugely overrated.

You're right that Sabonis is seriously underrated by many. Same is true of Stojakovic.

But you are making the opposite mistake. Sabonis looked like Superman against Europeans (before they caught up with the US) and college kids. He would not have looked like Superman in the NBA - even prior to injuries. He would have been very good - but nothing like you seem to imagine.

And Bill Walton's opinion? Either you are not familiar with Bill Walton or you are not being serious. Walton was a great player - would have been high on the all-time list if not for injuries. But Bill Walton is also the king of hyperbole. That's just how he talks. It makes for good entertainment. But taking his quotes seriously is absurd.

I watched a hundreds of NBA games in the 90s, and Robinson and Olajuwon were the marquee centers for most of the decade (along with O’Neal when he came into the league). Both Robinson and Olajuwon were athletic, prototypical big men who should be on anyone’s list of top 5-10 centers of all time. Sabonis had the same physical ability and big man skills as those two but was taller and also had incredible passing and outside shooting, and I think it’s unfair to penalize him for not having the chance to play against the best in his prime.

Besides Walton, there are plenty of knowledge basketball players and analysts who have opined on Sabonis’ potential would he have come to the NBA in the mid-80s. He was basically a larger Jokic with the inside game and physicality of Olajuwon. It’s easy to find some weakness in pretty much any player’s game, but Sabonis really didn’t seem to have anything lacking (can say the same for MJ but not many others). It’s fair to speculate whether he would have been an all-time great or not (say Olajuwon/Nowitzki level or higher), but to not include him but mention some of the others in this thread is ignorant.