Has Kipchoge surpassed Bekele as GOAT?

Greatest OLYMPIC marathon runner remains Abebe Bikila. Two races. Two Gold medals. Two world records. Nobody, including Kipchoge, is going to accomplish that even once, much less twice. Bear in mind also that Bikila set his WRs in summer weather, not marathon-friendly fall and spring.

automorphic wrote:

In other words, is 2:01:39 better than 12:37? Is it better than 26:17? I would suggest yes. But it’s hard to know for sure.

*I don’t trust the calculators on small margins like this. They’re great for a general idea, but not for splitting hairs, and they’re reactive to a game-changing performance like this one.

Calculators are exactly what this is for. Kipchoge has a VDOT of 84.7 based on that marathon time. Bekele has 85.

Kipchoge has exceeded in the marathon what he's done (himself) on the 5k though.

Bekele leads the head to head.

But the marathon symbolizes more. It resonates with people more so subjectively people side with Kipchoge. Plus he's extremely personable.

You are a fool wrote:

Range matters wrote:

Kipchoge is superior in range of medals across disciplines and distances. Bekele has no medals in championship road running, which is why his claim to GOAT fails.

You are clearly missing the fact that Bekele is also the GOAT xc runner, won Berlin, and ran 2:03:03. He has been successful at the highest level at every discipline. The irony of the his post is astonishing- bekele us one of the best cross-discipline talents.

Agreed, don't shortchange XC record. Meaningless times, but legitimate dominance

said88 wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

Since this the two men have met twice Berlin 2017 and London 2018, Kipchoge won both. So the head to head now stands at 16 to 9.

If the list is correct, it's 15 to 9.

Sorry buddy but Trackbot is saying 16 to 7 plus 2 more victories for Kipchoge.

I truly believe Bekele was using ped in his prime.

I don’t think you can explain his 5k 10k performances any other way.

I don’t believe Kipchoge is using ped.

This makes Kipchoge eclipse Bekrke in my mind.

Kipchoge goat.

And I don’t think it’s even close.

said88 wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

Since this the two men have met twice Berlin 2017 and London 2018, Kipchoge won both. So the head to head now stands at 16 to 9.

If the list is correct, it's 15 to 9.

Actually correction, Trackbot is wrong it is currently 17 to 9, Trackbot missed the 2003 5000m heats where Bekele was 1st and Kipchoge 2nd in Heat 1.

Man I wish El G hadn't hung it up after 2004! Would've loved to see him race Bekele in the years following, and maybe a WR attempt. Also tough not to wonder what an uninjured Bekele could've done in the marathon. In terms of pure talent, Kipchoge isn't "better" than Bekele; his body has just been incredibly resilient and he's had uninterrupted periods of training during his entire career. Bekele's been shadowed by injury since 2010, and listening to Hermens it sounds like he lags far behind Kipchoge when it comes to motivation and sticking to training. As some have said, it could have to do with his unique stride straining his calves after 10 years, coupled with a lack of desire to do the long, boring runs that Kipchoge approaches like a zen master. I think Kipchoge is made for the marathon and will show up prepared every time, but if you gave me Bekele with 2 years of solid training, I'd put all my money on him.

1. Geb

2. Bekele

3. Kipchoge

4. El G

5. Farah

6. Tergat/Tadese/Kamworor

Seems the debate was ended yesterday.

kipGOATge wrote:

Seems the debate was ended yesterday.

Yes it ended, but it was weeks ago when Bekele ran a 2:01:41, which has proved that Kipchoge's 2:01 is not so otherworldy / far ahead that no one can come close to(compared to 26:17, 12:37).

There was debate to even begin with.

Nobody could consider Kipchoge as the best distance runner. He is a marathon expert and current holder of the Olympic title and WR.

But he was brutalized by Bekele on track and in cross country when both were in their athletic prime. And now Bekele is just two seconds of Kipchoge best time on marathon.

Over 42.2 km, just two seconds. Kipchoge is like 30 seconds away Bekele on their best 10000m.

George213 wrote:

kipGOATge wrote:

Seems the debate was ended yesterday.

Yes it ended, but it was weeks ago when Bekele ran a 2:01:41, which has proved that Kipchoge's 2:01 is not so otherworldy / far ahead that no one can come close to(compared to 26:17, 12:37).

Except Kipchoge just ran two minutes faster yesterday....

Like Gatlin ran the 100m in 9.45 with extra help and conditions. Still way behind Bolt.

Exhibitions and freakshow score no points.

kipGOATge wrote:

George213 wrote:

Yes it ended, but it was weeks ago when Bekele ran a 2:01:41, which has proved that Kipchoge's 2:01 is not so otherworldy / far ahead that no one can come close to(compared to 26:17, 12:37).

Except Kipchoge just ran two minutes faster yesterday....

Impressive as it was, it was also completely contrived. Perfect weather, perfect track with very few turns or elevation change, pacers and car the entire race, and a monstrosity of a shoe.

The only times that matter are their PB's in actual "marathons", in which there's a difference of 7 hundredths of a second per mile.

PIK wrote:

The only times that matter are their PB's in actual "marathons", in which there's a difference of 7 hundredths of a second per mile.

Well, if you actually look at Bekele's and Kipchoge's marathon record races, Kipchoge's was way more impressive. Nobody to run with, even the pacers dropping out too soon and no target time to beat (except Kimetto's old WR which was no challenge). He ran relatively comfortably until the end, didn't kick because there was nothing to be gained from it. Bekele had pacers and other runners to run with and to push him, he had a target time in his mind and he struggled with a sprint to the line and still couldn't do it. In reality there's much more than 7 hundredths of a second per mile separating the two, and you will see it when Kipchoge does his next record attempt. Meanwhile Bekele might never produce a decent marathon again, resulting from his lack of consistent work ethic.

Well my post was mainly concerning the difference between the INEOS 159 and an actual marathon, but point taken. However, couldn't you make the case that those differences are cancelled out after age and weather grading Bekele's performance. A lot was made about the weather being less optimal than that of 2018. Either way, Kipchoge is the marathon GOAT.

Is he the GOAT joke? Could be. He is an enormous joke, but also Bekele is, Farah, Rudisha, etc etc

Bekele over Geb still. But I don’t get these newfag Kipchoge fanboys. Bekele pulverized Kipchoge both on the track and on the XC, and now also shows that he’s very close to Choge in the marathon despite being plagued by injuries still. Bekele is far and away the GOAT

There is no doubt Kipchoge is the marathons greatest runner. You have never seen someone so consistent in marathons. Bekele is still greatest at shorter distances 5k and 10k.