Different era and everything but Douglas Lowe's kick in the 1928 800m Olympic final is incredible :
Different era and everything but Douglas Lowe's kick in the 1928 800m Olympic final is incredible :
Prime Lagat gets my vote.
round and round wrote:
Apophis99 wrote:
This guy gets it.
@round and round: How in the world do you not see that a 53.87 last lap by Bekele in the ‘08 Olympics to finish in 12:57 while he’s wagging his finger and SMILING is not patently superior to whatever Farah closed his 13:41 in? Like seriously? How are you not conscious of the heuristic operating in your mind that leads you to believe that Mo Farah could have prevailed that day? They are not equal performances. One is a masterpiece. The other is a participation medal.
Farah never beats prime Bekele in any scenario ever. Never. Not once. Not even on a bad day. It doesn’t happen. (In before London 10k gets bandied around because I’m pretty sure “also ran” Farah was in a dozen races against Bekele but 200m off the lead and off-camera for the better part of a decade.)
After the Athens 5k (against the fastest miler in history...) Bekele stopped leaving things to chance.
See: the second half of 2003 WC 10k
See: sub-5:00 final 2k in his WR 5k — solo
See: final 100m of his 10k WR
See: Great North Run (2013?)
See: every time he annihilated the best competition in history in any scenario on any surface
See: poor, poor Sihine, a 12:46/26:39 guy who would have been among the greatest championship racers and time trialers ever, get constantly relegated to silver
Bekele is the best kicker ever.
El Guerrouj’s long kick was undoubtedly effective, and his tactics sublime, but I agree with others in that Lagat was potentially a better raw speed kicker. Hard to say on this one.
dude, i'm not saying Mo Farah's kick is more lethal than Bekele's. Not at all. Bekele's kick is the strongest. i'm also not saying Mo Farah would have won against Bekele in that 2008 final. He'd have been crushed. Bekele is a better runner. (Farah/Rupp did convincingly outkick Bekele in 2012 Oly's though...)
I'm adding a different perspective and saying Farah is a more 'successful' kicker. i am more impressed by bekele time trialing a 12:37 5k WR than Farah kicking to win a 5k in 13:41, but I think Farah's ability to hang in there and outkick his competition for the massive amount of gold medals is arguably more important. I'd rather have a gold medal than a world record (i know i know, all the letsrun guys prefer fast times)
He's not a better runner that Bekele and Geb or Kipchoge etc by any stretch. His kick is less lethal, but it's been more successful at winning medals. you just cannot argue that. he has more olympic golds than bekele....wikipedia him and look at his medal count since 2010. it's impressive.
i don't even like him
Fair enough. I see your point but disagree.
Excepting the last World Champs, especially the 10k, I basically see Mo’s medals as participation medals. I know this is a wildly unpopular opinion but caliber of field and finishing times matter bigly. (See all the sh1t posted about Centro’s gold. At least he got it done over, what, 6+ of the top ten milers in history?)
Flame on, boys.
Ritz kicked from 2 miles out. Sara Bei Hall with not too shabby a kick too on the distaff side....
Snell's kick in the 1964 1500m OG final was amazing.
"Is this the Ryun kick you are referring to? "
Every time I see this clip I am amazed at Ryun's speed fro 1200 to 1300. He enters the back straight a couple of metres down on Norpoth and Tummler - both of whom were noted fast finishers in their own right - and hits the last bend several metres to the good. Whatever the time for his last 400 was - and I don't want to reignite that particular debate! - his time for that 100 stretch must have been no more than 12 seconds.
Salazar!
Ask Virgin about the track and ask Beardsley and Gomez about the roads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWRM-7pDxDgFausto Coppi wrote:
Who has the best finishing kick ever for middle or long distance races?
Snell?
Ryun?
Coe?
Ovett?
Yifter?
Cova?
Skah?
Morceli?
Gebrselassie?
Borzakovskiy?
Bekele?
Farah?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWoNJYweeoY
Fernando Mamede had a brutal and yet underrated finishing kick.
One of the best races ever. Watched it as a 13 year old; it still has the power to excite and enthrall!!
ukathleticscoach wrote:
epicTCK wrote:
you cant compare bolt to owens because they are different eras. Bekele and farah: same era. Farah only started winning when the greats like El G, Bekele, kipchoge, geb were off the track and doing thons / retired. Throw any of those names I mentioned into a final with farah and have them jog the first 10 or so laps, and they will beat farah by many meters. Have you seen the 2009 world champs 10k? consistent 62 second laps until Bekele drops the hammer. Farah? he does consistent 65-70 second jogging and then runs like a 53 or so. Farah can't kick off of fast paces, that's why he slows the race down. AFAIK, 2009 wc 10,000m was like a 26:40 or something and Bekele still had an amazing kick
So you include years when Bekele beat Farah and ignore when the roles were reversed?
Bekele has a better kick over 200m Farah would at least come close in a longer kick
By the way Farah era came after Geb and Bekele as they are older than him. Geb significantly so and you can add 4 years to Bekele age hence he's fecked now! Your era definition is illogical just because the gap is 5 or do years not 50. Stop talking crap and stick to the ops question
Head-to-head record between Kenenisa Bekele (left) and Mo Farah (right):
WY Bydgoszcz 1999-07-16: 3000 m: 8:09.89 (2) VS 8:21.25 (6)
WJ Santiago de Chile 2000-10-21: 5000 m: 13:45.43 (2) VS 14:12.21 (10)
WC Lausanne-La Broye 2003-03-29: Cross Country 4.0 km: 11:01 (1) VS 12:13 (75)
WC Saint-Galmier 2005-03-20: Cross Country 12.0 km: 35:06 (1) VS 37:50 (37)
Norw Union London 2005-07-22: 5000 m: 12:55.55 (1) VS 13:48.46 (16)
WC Fukuoka 2006-04-01: Cross Country 4.0 km: 10:54 (1) VS 11:27 (40)
WC Mombasa 2007-03-24: Cross Country 12.0 km: DNF (0) VS 37:31 (11)
Norw Union Sheffield 2007-07-15: 3000 m: 7:26.69 (1) VS 7:42.83 (6)
Norw Union Birmingham 2008-02-16: Two Miles: 8:04.35 (1) VS 8:20.95 (6)
Aviva Gateshead 2008-08-31: 3000 m: 7:31.94 (1) VS 7:46.39 (5)
Bislett Oslo 2009-07-03: 5000 m: 13:04.87 (1) VS 13:12.28 (11)
WC Berlin 2009-08-23: 5000 m: 13:17.09 (1) VS 13:19.69 (7)
VD Bruxelles 2009-09-04: 5000 m: 12:55.31 (1) VS 13:22.33 (13)
WC Daegu 2011-08-28: 10000 m: DNF (0) VS 27:14.07 (2)
Pre Eugene OR 2012-06-02: 5000 m: 13:01.48 (4) VS 12:56.98 (1)
OG London 2012-08-04: 10000 m: 27:32.44 (4) VS 27:30.42 (1)
Great North South Shields 2013-09-15: Half Marathon: 60:09 (1) VS 60:10 (2)
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&thread=7784245&id=7784409no, i'm not ignoring the times farah beat bekele. They are just so few. They are in the same era because they nearly the same age! just because bekele got injured/ switched to the roads sooner doesn't mean they are not in the same era.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
By the way Farah era came after Geb and Bekele as they are older than him. Geb significantly so and you can add 4 years to Bekele age hence he's fecked now! Your era definition is illogical just because the gap is 5 or do years not 50. Stop talking crap and stick to the ops question
both bekele and farah are 35, bud
epicTCK wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
By the way Farah era came after Geb and Bekele as they are older than him. Geb significantly so and you can add 4 years to Bekele age hence he's fecked now! Your era definition is illogical just because the gap is 5 or do years not 50. Stop talking crap and stick to the ops question
both bekele and farah are 35, bud
Bekele doesn't get the same respect as Farah just because Farah has more golds in the OG and WC.
Bekele faced much tougher competition especially in the 5000m.
People forget all the gold Bekele has in the world XC, arguably the toughest race of all.
distance races - Bekele
middle distance - El G or Kiprop
Aouita had a pretty handy kick.
Outkicked Coghlan and Gonzalez here.
I always found Yifter's kick comical how good it was compared to other people at the time. With 300 to go he made a lot of people appear to be slow even though they were going fast.
In Donald Sage's 2 mile HS video his last lap just appears nuts too.
allman brothers wrote:
mills
I'm surprised it took so long for this to come up. Not only was it a blazing kick to win gold, it was unexpected and on a slow cinder track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOj0zjPzg-cCoachB wrote:
allman brothers wrote:
mills
I'm surprised it took so long for this to come up. Not only was it a blazing kick to win gold, it was unexpected and on a slow cinder track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOj0zjPzg-c
Ron Clarke called Mills' win a fluke.
I wonder how Gammoudi felt.
Deanouk wrote:
I like Spanish Runners wrote:
C'mon man!...he pulled up with 5 meters to go. I had him at 50.47 - so easily a sub-50 if he would have sprinted through the line. Ramzi did the same thing at Bejing pulling up before the line. These hot shots winning gold at the big time Olympic games like to pull up and celebrate...nothing new there.
He eased off a bit with about 10m to go. It wasn’t 0.7sec worth of easing up. If he hadn’t he still wasn’t going to run 49.8 or break 50sec. Maybe 50.2.
Too much fish & chips there Brit? You have no clue what you're talking about. Cacho pulled the parachute easing up with more like 15 meters to go - look at his stride length & arm movement change as he approaches the line. If he had charged full throttle through the line he could have easily wiped out 0.7 seconds to a sub-50. He had the race won coming out of turn 4!
https://youtu.be/CQXByhqA3YA/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/57997147/203_Ronda_Rousey_vs_Holly_Holm_1_.0.0.jpg){kind=link}