Is Callum Hawkins going to win his first marathon at the CW games?

Ah the 90s wrote:

You look at Paula Newby-Frazier in 1995 Ironman she was in a similar probably worse state. She got medical attention and was back on her feet running. Note how at 6-mins her fiance is demanding they get an ambulance for her (and by luck a spectator happens to have a cellular phone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_utqeQALVE

Looks like a case of hypnoatremia, which killed a number of people in the '90s due to overhydration.

where was the lead cyclist???? wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

This is shocking, watching Shelley run past Hawkins like that was a lesson how cold top level has become.

No, you are wrong. By the time Shelley went by there were people standing with Hawkins (still doing nothing, but present). Shelley had no way of knowing that CH was there for so long by himself. From Shelley’s perspective things were being dealt with, run on, win the race. Nothing wrong or evil in his running past.

I’ve read many of your posts over the last few days. Most of them are poorly thought out, and this is just another example.

I would have loved for Hawkins to win, but to imply Shelley is ruthless or heartless is just plain wrong.

I usually agree with SSA, but in this case he/she is wrong. Shelly was trying to win a hot weather marathon, probably had serious tunnel vision. By the time he processed what was going on, he probably was already past Hawkins.

staggolee wrote:

Ah the 90s wrote:

You look at Paula Newby-Frazier in 1995 Ironman she was in a similar probably worse state. She got medical attention and was back on her feet running. Note how at 6-mins her fiance is demanding they get an ambulance for her (and by luck a spectator happens to have a cellular phone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_utqeQALVE

Looks like a case of hypnoatremia, which killed a number of people in the '90s due to overhydration.

Asking non-confrontationally ... if it was hynoatremia why does giving her more water to drink and pour it over her help her get back on her feet and moving?

It’s not on Shelley at all no matter what, all the med staff, I’ve run by people in races before who were down and notice it but it doesn’t really register right away because you’re so focused on running especially in rough conditions like these

I wonder if you'd care to share this cure for avoiding heatstroke that no human has ever invented before? Perhaps it could also be applied to any athletes "stupid" enough to lose leads in races? In fact, you must be a genius trainer/coach/athlete to the degree that you can override human medical conditions in a way that the rest of the world finds medically possible.

Would it be the same as the cure for "stupidity" in not being able to add up cumulative minutes on live timing or understanding that the condition of heatstroke involves semi-consciousness and a lack of ability to make rational decisions or realise the seriousness of the condition?

If you struggle with basic understanding of heatstroke, perhaps you have heard of hypothermia which is similar in its presentation in some regards, with sufferers being unaware of their condition and notoriously removing clothing because they feel fine?

There might be overlap with heat stroke. In other words, if she is in hypnoatremia AND heat stroke, the cooling effect of water could be weighed against the effects of hypno. The telltale symptom would be vomiting of fluid. She certainly exhibits many of the following:

(from Mayo clinic)

"Symptoms

Hyponatremia signs and symptoms may include:

Nausea and vomiting

Headache

Confusion

Loss of energy and fatigue

Restlessness and irritability

Muscle weakness, spasms or cramps

Seizures

Coma"

Hawkins certainly did not have hypno. He was getting cooked out on that sun-baked pavement.

Stop here... wrote:

Callum may have just lain there and did not want to get up -- disappointed with himself. That could be a reason why they didn't help. Photos might be for liability reasons. Anyway, I hope he is okay -- he is a tremendous talent -- and he can explain later what happened.

you are an a-hole.

[quote]phwitjhs r#jwy wrote:

Would it be the same as the cure for "stupidity" in not being able to add up cumulative minutes on live timing or understanding that the condition of heatstroke involves semi-consciousness and a lack of ability to make rational decisions or realise the seriousness of the condition?

If you struggle with basic understanding of heatstroke.../quote]

Sadly Sir I am afraid that you are a f-cking idiot.

You are aware of what heat stroke is yeah? You do realise that people keel over and die from it in races practically every year in the UK in temperatures no where near what it was like this morning... And your comment here re making relational decisions in that condition is uttetly moranic because my point was he shouldn't even have been getting in that condition - he was so far clear because he pushed beyond what his body could handle. He banged out two mins on the Aussie in the 2nd half of a marathon in blazing Aussie conditions! That - like you - was f-cking moranic and the reason he isn't sitting on a plane back home right now with a medal around his neck.

Poor Callum Hawkins. He did everything he could to be the best UK marathoner ever, even trying to best Mo Farah at that distance.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Yes I understand the point you are making, Shelley didn't want to get caught, but he was well ahead of the Ugandan. The problem is his callous lack of acknowledgement when he went past a potentially comatose rival.

Once again, you’re comment is ridiculous. How is Shelley suppose to know what is happening. WE watched it unfold on camera. Shelley was 2 minutes back, far enough that he did not see any of the stumbling or falling. He had zero knowledge of the severity of Hawkins’ situation. For all Shelley knew CH might have just had a calf cramp. At the time he passed him, there were 2 (useless) attendants standing beside Hawkins. Do you really think it is Shelley’s responsibility to stop and check to see if another runner is o.k. ?

Your other post that I commented on is stupid enough as you inferred Shelley was ruthless, but now you have directly called him callous. You are ridiculous if you think Shelley had any knowledge of the situation and even more ridiculous if you think he should have stopped to help.

Even if Shelley was aware of the circumstances it would be fair to say it is not his responsibility to stop, stay, and help. It would be fair for Shelley to keep running and to assume that medical staff would respond to the situation immediately (which, sadly, they did not). If Shelley saw him bump his head, yes, it would be a sportsmanlike gesture to stop and make sure he was comfortable on the ground while somebody ELSE cares for him and he resumes running. None of this can be blamed on Shelley, and if you continue to think so, you are beyond help.

There is a very serious side to this.

The UK has a history of "losing" marathon runners because of getting into trouble in very hot conditions ( and 30 degrees is very hot if you are from the UK).

Jim Peters, in the 1954 Commonwealth Games, in similar circumstances to Callum, got into dire straits, and as a result - I'm think I'm correct in saying - never ran another marathon.

And, the great Steve Jones suffered heat distress in the 1986 European marathon, and , I don't think, ever ran a world class performance after it.

Callum Hawkins won today. He’s going to get a huge settlement after the lawsuit that will pay him far more than winning this race or any race.

He’s the real winner.

interesting video

i note what he said at the end about the possibility that once you've suffered from one episode of heatstroke then you never fully recover - this happened to a good club runner i knew back in the day. He went 'missing' during a ten mile road race on a very hot day and was eventually found laying under a hedge by the side of the road where he had collapsed. He was in hospital for a week, off work for more than a month and it was about a year before he ran again, but was never quite the same. I thought of this incident when I watched Hawkins collapse.

dingo gravy wrote:

Seriously mate? wrote:

STFU. Clearly he was suffering heat stroke and not going to finish the race. It was a goddamn disgrace no one helped him and how long it took for an ambulance to reach him. Heat stroke is no joke and the kid could end up with organ failure or even worse.

toughen up son. spectators don't know if they can touch them or not

Terrible to see, but if non-participants in a marathon aid a runner, then that runner is disqualified. Especially if someone is leading the race near the finish I can see hesitation to help.

There's hesistation and there's seeing someone collapsing to the ground, failing to get up and being down for an extended period and reactioning by getting your phone out.

Like people have said, you can't blame the other runners, they probably weren't even thinking straight either.

Really the worst at fault are the organizers, just serious failings on multiple levels, and they might have permantly messed up his running career.

portsea57 wrote:

The real villains here are those who choose to hold the race in such temperatures.

All the big city marathons are held in the Spring or Autumn for a reason.

You would have thought the Commonwealth Games organisers would have been aware of the 1954 fiasco.

I'm reminded of something Geb said back at the time of the 2004 Olympics. When asked if he would be running in the marathon, he said that he wouldn't because it would be too hot!

And, that from an African.

The games organisers have a duty to protect the welfare of athletes. and timing marathons to be run in 30 degree temperature is a neglect of those duties.

agree totally. An 8:15am start! Whoever decided on the time has never been an elite distance runner I bet.

BitPlaya wrote:

There's hesistation and there's seeing someone collapsing to the ground, failing to get up and being down for an extended period and reactioning by getting your phone out.

Like people have said, you can't blame the other runners, they probably weren't even thinking straight either.

Really the worst at fault are the organizers, just serious failings on multiple levels, and they might have permantly messed up his running career.

surely Hawkins himself has to take some responsibility for getting his pacing so horribly wrong.

run run run wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MaxxmpAyXQ

The lack of emergency medical services shows what the CG organizers really think about the marathon.