Peter Elliot the last non-African male to attempt to break a mid/long distance record (1990)?

Or, maybe USATF? Note the year...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/3009305/United-States-accused-of-drugs-cover-up.html

And we all remember them covering up over 100 positive tests earlier - is that why you now came up withthe 25 year timeframe?

Deanouk wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Wasn't there a thread about a year ago on here of a top Kenyan from 1988 or 1992 admitting to being on steriods?

Yes, I can't recall the exact context of the allegation, although I think another athlete stated (and wrote on here) that the said athlete concerned (Konchellah, iirc) admitted to them that they were using drugs around the time of either 87 or 91. Konchellah has since spent time in prison for crimes which I can't recall.

No. It was on the Johnny Gray interview where he claimed a Kenyan athlete approached him and told him he was on something and we did our own sleuthing to guess who it was based on his contemporaries, which Kenyans were American-based at the time and therefore friendly with him and also the fact that it was Billy Konchellah who famously and publicly had very severe asthma when he was competing which made him miss whole years including Seoul. We also speculated that being U.S.-based and being coached and treated for his condition in the American system, Billy was the only Kenyan with the swagger or personality to brag about something like that (if true) to another athlete, whether or not he had a TUE. Billy's vile criminal record, while not athletics related, also informed our guessing on his personality.

Deanouk wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Wasn't there a thread about a year ago on here of a top Kenyan from 1988 or 1992 admitting to being on steriods?

Yes, I can't recall the exact context of the allegation, although I think another athlete stated (and wrote on here) that the said athlete concerned (Konchellah, iirc) admitted to them that they were using drugs around the time of either 87 or 91. Konchellah has since spent time in prison for crimes which I can't recall.

The crimes Konchellah spent time in prison for were for drugging and raping children in Finland, where he had made his home. Prior to that, he had been arrested for raping a young student in the UK.

The thread you're referring to began by speculating who the Kenyan steroid user was. This was AFTER Konchellah's conviction for child rape. In that thread, El Keinio expresses his fear that the the Kenyan cheat was Konchella, being one of El Keinio's all-time favourites.

So 'Mr fair' El Keinio thinks anyone following the most famous young runner in the world (who happens to be white) on Instagram is a creepy peadophile, but seems perfectly o.k. with one his Kenyan faves being a convicted multiple child rapist.

And yes, likely all the Kenyas of that period were on roids and HGH. It would explain the erratic performances of the likes of Ereng and Rono.

In 88 Seoul even an injured Cram and Elliott were likely the first two clean runners (Herold obviously a doper with the same coach as Beyer who was caught even in reunified Germany supplying illegal drugs to kids). If Coe had been there instead of the cheats, then it would certainly have been a British 1-2-3.

In the 800m Elliott finishe to Ereng - Cruz - Aouita. I'm confident that Cruz was as clean as anyone (in fact he almost got kicked out of Seoul for accusing Flo Jo of being on drugs), but the chances of Aouita being clean are about 1%, and Ereng maybe 20%.

So a crippled Elliott would have won gold and silver at Seoul in clean races. Not bad for an 'inferior runner' according to El Keinio.

Coevett

You are not bright. Consequently, you make comments about the likelihood of African runners being clean and label them with a percentage which you get out of your ass, and then you proclaim your favorite white runners as clean in an attempt to rewrite history and shuffle the podium so that your racist sentiments are gratified by your fictional results. Why are you so insecure? Did your wife cuckold you by sleeping with a real man? You appear to be in need of counseling for your inferiority complex.

Derrière wrote:

Coevett

You are not bright. Consequently, you make comments about the likelihood of African runners being clean and label them with a percentage which you get out of your ass, and then you proclaim your favorite white runners as clean in an attempt to rewrite history and shuffle the podium so that your racist sentiments are gratified by your fictional results. Why are you so insecure? Did your wife cuckold you by sleeping with a real man? You appear to be in need of counseling for your inferiority complex.

First, I would suggest you choose a different name if you want to be taken even half-seriously. Although you are probably most of the other trolls posting here under different names to give yourself some support.

Secondly, I am very bright by any objective standards.

Thirdly, these are not figures are pulled from my ass, they are the reasonable inference from clearly stated evidence only a pathetic wimp blinded by a hardcore ebony/cuckold fetish could ignore.

Derrière wrote:

Coevett

You are not bright. Consequently, you make comments about the likelihood of African runners being clean and label them with a percentage which you get out of your ass, and then you proclaim your favorite white runners as clean in an attempt to rewrite history and shuffle the podium so that your racist sentiments are gratified by your fictional results. Why are you so insecure? Did your wife cuckold you by sleeping with a real man? You appear to be in need of counseling for your inferiority complex.

I wonder if you'd care to give a percentage of the likelihood of Konchella using drugs to give himself an advantage over his rivals and escape poverty in Kenya, given that he has convictions for drugging and raping multiple children, and has apparently admitted to steroid abuse? Would you rate it as the same as Peter Elliott being on peds?

No I don't actually want to know. Just the thought of what a sickening troll and drug excuser like you must look like typing away in his basement is making me want to vomit before I go out on my morning run.

casual obsever wrote:

Or, maybe USATF? Note the year...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/3009305/United-States-accused-of-drugs-cover-up.html

And we all remember them covering up over 100 positive tests earlier - is that why you now came up withthe 25 year timeframe?

I think this is worse (or on a par)

Amazing to think Cruz was forced to make a personal weeping apology to Flo Jo and Griffith Joyner after accusing them of being on peds at Seoul :

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-09-30/sports/sp-3145_1_joaquim-cruz

I wonder if the LA Times writer - Mike Downey - still think Flo Jo was clean?

Thanks Subway, quite a few interesting statements in there, including the old

"Indeed, sports governing bodies are not immune to coverups, corruption and other scandals."

which was actually my point here with Deanouk. And of course, once more, from Hersh:

"(It would be) very damaging to a sport that is struggling worldwide. The only thing worse would be for (Usain) Bolt to test positive/be found to have doped. If that happens, the sport is officially dead."

I am sure you remember several unnamed Jamaicans testing positive for clen in Beijing 2008, and then both IOC and WADA covering it up.

In conclusion, it wasn't just the dirty 80s where the federations protected their cheats. Some things will never change.

HRH wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Inferior Brit got dusted by unknown Kenyan at the Seoul Olympics.

Elliot ran that 1500 final with a torn symphysis pubis cartilage requiring a series of pain killing injections including cortisone.

One wonders just how much faster Peter Elliot would have run had he not simultaneously held down a full time job working in the steel industry during his running career

Ouch, injuries in the pubis/hernia/pubulgia area are depressing and debilitating (trust me). I liked Peter Elliot, he wasn't the best runner I'd seen, but he was always putting it on the line and Cram a times crushed him but he kept plugging away. He had courage (which I lacked). He was really the last of an era. My view was that right after Elliot western males (I'm really referring to Anglo-Saxon/Celtic) chose to specialize at either 800m or 1500m etc but not two events 8/15 or to a lesser extent 15/5 and they stopped improving (coupled with declining demographics, other sports that paid better: cycling, soccer, triathlon even golf).

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

My view was that right after Elliot western males (I'm really referring to Anglo-Saxon/Celtic) chose to specialize at either 800m or 1500m etc but not two events 8/15 or to a lesser extent 15/5 and they stopped improving (coupled with declining demographics, other sports that paid better: cycling, soccer, triathlon even golf).

It's an interesting question actually as to whether the modern assumption that it is better to specialize in one event (800 or 1500) is true.

I mean, if it is true, what times were Coe, Ovett, Cram and Elliott and the rest, capable of if they'd focused exclusively on one event?

Maybe the North Africans tended to specialize in the 1500m or double with the 5000 because of the EPO, and white Europeans and Americans (athletes and coaches) began to assume that this was obviously the best way?

I can believe that Ovett was really training for the 1500m more or less after the Montreal Olympics and tended to use the 800m simply to sharpen his 1500 speed, even at major championships. Coe was predominantly an 800m runner in 1979 and perhaps the 1500 and mile records were a bit weak at the time given that Ovett hadn't chased them up to that point. Somebody posted here the other day that in 1980 Coe switched training to attempt the double at Moscow and that's why he lost to Ovett over 800, but I don't think that's true, he lost because Ovett was in superb form and Coe ran a dreadful race. He smashed the 1000m WR in 1980 before Moscow. Although I think Coe did focus more on the 1500 for LA as he was aware it was easier to get his 1500 form back than the speed required for 800m after being off for so long, and also with the 1500 coming after the 800 at LA he could use the 800 as a sharpener.

Derrière wrote:

Coevett

You are not bright. Consequently, you make comments about the likelihood of African runners being clean and label them with a percentage which you get out of your ass, and then you proclaim your favorite white runners as clean in an attempt to rewrite history and shuffle the podium so that your racist sentiments are gratified by your fictional results. Why are you so insecure? Did your wife cuckold you by sleeping with a real man? You appear to be in need of counseling for your inferiority complex.

? It must be utterly exhausting to be him.

It took me a while to realise that nutcase isn't worth responding to. Claiming every Kenyan athlete was on steroids and HGH in Seoul. Proof that Paul Ereng and Peter Rono were doped to the gills is that they ran erratically. Proof the rest were on PEDs as well is that they ran more consistently, beating the Brits and consigning their golden age to history.

I'm also loving that many British athletes are now choosing to train in the Rift Valley, which must stir quite a few contradicting emotions in him.

Yes, thanks for confirming that. I remember now that it was Johnny Gray who was being quoted. I did realise that Gray never gave his name, that’s why I put it in brackets. I, just like most others who read the thead, worked it out.

Cheers.

Coevett wrote:

Amazing to think Cruz was forced to make a personal weeping apology to Flo Jo and Griffith Joyner after accusing them of being on peds at Seoul :

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-09-30/sports/sp-3145_1_joaquim-cruz

I wonder if the LA Times writer - Mike Downey - still think Flo Jo was clean?

I met Cruz and he is a likeable guy and when I heard him say that Flojo "looks more like a man" and JJK "must be doing something that isn't normal to gain all these muscles," I now like him even more. And he was right.

"FloJo does not do drugs. She swears it. She does 3,000 situps before bed."

Ha, give me a break that's as funny as Roger Daltry running 800m, passionate kissing positives and Bjarne Riis doping on industrial strength glue.

"Dr Park Jong Sei, director of the Doping Control Centre in Seoul, revealed after the Games that 20 athletes who failed tests had not been punished - because of split votes among the International Olympic Committee's medical commission. It was rumoured that Griffith Joyner escaped admonition on the understanding that she would never race again,"

"Darrell Robinson, the former American 400m runner, told the German magazine Stern that he had supplied her with Human Growth Hormone."

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/athletics-flo-jo-and-the-shadow-of-doubt-1200951.html

Wow! Fascinating and disappointing at the same time.

Let’s hope that things are changing or have changed in recent years.

I don’t see how Ereng is seen as only 20% likely to be clean, while Cruz is considered a dead cert to be clean?

A poster mentioned Konchellah being dirty, and that this was not surprising as he was coached in the US. Well if quotes from Gray are true and knowing what Konchellah went on to do in his life, then it isn’t surprising he doped.

But both Ereng and Cruz were part of the US collegiate system, so surely any questions or possibilities they doped should be equally plausible?

To be fair, Konchellah would likely get a TUE for the career-threatening asthma which put him out of commission for years in between. If he had stayed in Kenya he'd have had to retire as medicine in the country back then wasn't advanced enough to help him. His being a bad guy and a criminal does not detract from his talent as a runner.