WCAP Intl Eligibilty at Risk: IAAF Transfer of Allegiance

I’ll post more later but your stances are fundamentally un-American.

- Look forward to your opinion on why its cool to manipulate the following:

* Military Svc/Immigration

* An expectation on US Grants/Scholarships to foreigners to "MTGLA" ... Make Their Country Like America! intent versus stay here ... Korir, Chelanga, Cheserek, etc.

* For the Postal Service to market their capabilities in France?

Manipulate? You said that you are against immigration, full stop.

It's not really worth talking to this guy. All of his arguments are premised on weird value judgments like what constitutes a "real" soldier and what is a "legitimate" vs. "fraudulent" basis for immigration.

I will say I'm skeptical of the marketing value of the WCAP, regardless of where its members were born, but that's just an empirical question.

800 dude wrote:

It's not really worth talking to this guy. All of his arguments are premised on weird value judgments like what constitutes a "real" soldier and what is a "legitimate" vs. "fraudulent" basis for immigration.

I will say I'm skeptical of the marketing value of the WCAP, regardless of where its members were born, but that's just an empirical question.

Meh. The Army has been in the business of athletics for decades, well before WCAP. The Army has many practices which many would be skeptical of.

I think many “human resource” jobs should be done by civilian contractors who typically have much more experience. I think many other “real jobs”, like mechanic, should have more experienced civilian contractors.

In the Active Army, typically, no one works the same specific job for more than 18-24mo. As soon as you get really good at something you are reassigned to another position or another installation. For the most part this isn’t a big deal. Most of us are simply training for the real thing....ie: we are great LARPers. In most cases the assignments are simply about increasing responsibility and authority in an effort to develop leadership skills, or broadening your skill set in general.

Alan

It is valid to have a problem with WCAP in that they are using army resources for something that is a very niche interest, and not within the scope of military operations. However, it is a very different thing to take issue with immigrants in particular participating in WCAP - that is much harder to defend, and often is a product of racist preconceptions.

LS - Do you hate the player or the game?

Separate your feelings from the athletes and your claimed loophole of the WCAP. It's easy to speak disdain when you are born/raised in this country that offers 100X the opportunity.

With that said, I'm willing to set up a meeting with you and any WCAP member of your choice to let you see the world through their eyes if you have interest.

Let me know.

For perspective, the US military has over 2 million active and reserve personnel, and an annual operating budget of almost $600 billion . OP is worried about the dozen or so guys in a program with a total budget of maybe a few million (I doubt the they make more than their pay grades, but may be wrong on this). That's like if you made $100k a year and were worried about spending a single one of those dollars.

Uncle Sam wrote:

For perspective, the US military has over 2 million active and reserve personnel, and an annual operating budget of almost $600 billion . OP is worried about the dozen or so guys in a program with a total budget of maybe a few million (I doubt the they make more than their pay grades, but may be wrong on this). That's like if you made $100k a year and were worried about spending a single one of those dollars.

Likely Base Pay, housing allowance, food allowance, maybe a special duty pay, and definitely travel pay/reimbursements.

Alan

gdeegz wrote:

It is valid to have a problem with WCAP in that they are using army resources for something that is a very niche interest, and not within the scope of military operations. However, it is a very different thing to take issue with immigrants in particular participating in WCAP - that is much harder to defend, and often is a product of racist preconceptions.

It supports the recruiting mission, therefore is within the scope of military operations. There is also MWR involvement so many expenses are going to be non-appropriated funds anyway.

Alan

gdeegz wrote:

It is valid to have a problem with WCAP in that they are using army resources for something that is a very niche interest, and not within the scope of military operations. However, it is a very different thing to take issue with immigrants in particular participating in WCAP - that is much harder to defend, and often is a product of racist preconceptions.

- I'm not defending anything .... I'm attacking the Army, WCAP, and the MAVNI policy. No doubt, this would be an attractive path if I were in their shoes. Albeit, I would like to think that loyalty to my native land and family would trump WCAP.

Irrelevant wrote:

LS - Do you hate the player or the game?

Separate your feelings from the athletes and your claimed loophole of the WCAP. It's easy to speak disdain when you are born/raised in this country that offers 100X the opportunity.

With that said, I'm willing to set up a meeting with you and any WCAP member of your choice to let you see the world through their eyes if you have interest.

Let me know.

- I hate the game with the exception of Spc. Chelimo who is a clown that should not be either a AMCIT or Soldier.

- Why would I choose to meet with a WCAPer to experience their world? It is self-evident .... what's to learn?

Uncle Sam wrote:

For perspective, the US military has over 2 million active and reserve personnel, and an annual operating budget of almost $600 billion . OP is worried about the dozen or so guys in a program with a total budget of maybe a few million (I doubt the they make more than their pay grades, but may be wrong on this). That's like if you made $100k a year and were worried about spending a single one of those dollars.

- Yes. As an American citizen I am concerned about Dept of Defense Fraud Waste & Abuse when folks are scheming to kill us everyday.

- Yes. I am concerned that the WCAP hijacked our sport more than doping.

Lickety Split wrote:

- Yes. I am concerned that the WCAP hijacked our sport more than doping.

you are a World Class Dumba$$.

Really nothing more to say than that, res ipsa loquitur

- Typical response .... going ad hominem on Lickety when faced with the brutal facts.

Lickety Split wrote:

- Typical response .... going ad hominem on Lickety when faced with the brutal facts.

So you dislike the WCAP program in general? Not just that the WCAP track team has a lot of Kenyan Americans?

What about the WCAP Winter Olympics success? Or sports such as boxing? Is your disdain focused just on track?

It would be a good idea for you to live a day in their shoes. They are required to travel around the country for various recruiting events so it’s not just running.

Alan

Lickety Split wrote:

- Typical response .... going ad hominem on Lickety when faced with the brutal facts.

Your post contained no facts. “WCAP is worse than doping” is the definition of an opinion.

You’re welcome.

Having had the opportunity to race against and meet most of the WCAP runners I cannot stand the hate they receive. I am a natural born American who regularly gets beaten and sometimes does beat WCAP athletes and I have nothing more than the utmost respect for them and would love for them to represent the United States in international competition. They are great people who do make a sacrifice for this country, more so than most Americans. And believe it or not, their running does carry positive benefits for the United States military services, otherwise the program wouldn't exist. Equally, to all those who complain about what they do to competition in the United States and how negative their impact is, stop making excuses. Instead of rolling over, how about training to beat them? I consider myself a friend to several of them and all they do is motivate me to try harder, to train better, and to improve. They love competition and to see people at least make an effort to beat them. Instead of trying to ban athletes who want to be Americans and compete for the United States, how about we welcome them with open arms?

- What sacrifice do they make for the country? They "hold their breath" through a few months of basic training & strennuous training like Water Purification, Financial Mgt, etc & then they are granted citizenship & take any chance you thought you might have of making a team away from you.

- What positive benefit does WCAP make for the US Army?

- Training to beat them? OK amigo ... most of these guys have run thousands of miles, genetically blessed w/1% body fat, & live thousands of meters above altitude throughout their life ... & let me guess --- you started XC in the 9th grade.

- The majority of WCAPers want to be Americans so they can continue running professionally ..... not because they want to serve our country.