Road Racing and Training Thread, Week Ending 1/21/18

Runningforfun wrote:

Looking at Daniels different training plans, it seems like there really isn't one that half marathon specific. His 5k-15k plan could be used for elite runners(def not me) and his half marathon/marathon plan is really more suited for the full. I suppose take a mix of both? I can't see how doing a lot of reps will benefit a whole lot.

Do you have the 3rd edition? I think that one has a HM plan, but I could be mistaken.

I have the 3rd edition ebook. If you'd like a copy of the HM training charts, let me know.

Here it is. Let me know when you downloaded it so I can remove it. Reasonable sharing is good. Violating copyrights is bad.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lgjrJQJyXjrJ8BRnE2FLfpYI4mD1oQyD

RRR sounds good I'll look into it. Smoove if it's not too much trouble that would be cool! Coach I have the second edition. That would be interesting to see his hm training plan.

Coach I got it. Perfect timing

pewow wrote:

Quick race report

1 mi - 4:36

15 min break

800 - DNF, haha

Still a fast mile. Congrats! What happened in the 800?

My pleasure.

So where you guys are racing, what is your HR around for the half and full?

I don't have a recent HM under reasonable weather conditions.

My December marathon HRavg: 181

Mile 3: HRavg 174

Miles 24-26: HRavg 184

Rising by a beat or two every couple of miles. All of my marathons for the past five years have been at or around 181 HRavg. My HRmax is over 200... I saw 202 at the end of a hot hilly race last summer.

Easy/GA days I try to stay around 145.

I estimate my threshold HR at around 175 at present.

As I've said in the past, I use the HRM to keep me easy on easy days. I also find the HRM a great tool for doing "equivalent effort" workouts. I like to run in the mountains where "pace" is not a measure of intensity, so I can set a "workout" on my watch to keep me in low aerobic for the flats and downhills (beep and vibrate) and high aerobic on the uphills (or threshold or whatever I want). It's really like having a coach on your wrist, keeping you in check when you need to be and telling you to push harder when appropriate.

Almost 7am here. Time for my long run...32k today with 20 something flat and then a couple hundred meters of hill climbing to wrap it up.

Stay happy, Pappy!

CJ - Are those wrist (optical) HR numbers?

Chest strap. Forerunner920XT with Trisomething HRM. My heart rates have been consistent with the readings from my previous Forerunner 305(?).

If your max HR is that high, then you should have no problem going higher than 145 on easier days. My max HR is around 195, and I have no problem running 160 regularly.

outsiderunner wrote:

If your max HR is that high, then you should have no problem going higher than 145 on easier days. My max HR is around 195, and I have no problem running 160 regularly.

This is very bad training advice.

outsiderunner wrote:

If your max HR is that high, then you should have no problem going higher than 145 on easier days. My max HR is around 195, and I have no problem running 160 regularly.

Theoretically, yeah. In my experience, I've improved more by keeping easy days quite easy. I want to nail my workout days, and everything else is easy volume. It may be coincidental, but I began to really break through a plateau two years ago when I resolved to keep the easy days palpably different from the workout days. Over the past few months, I've been increasing the intensity of workouts and really enjoy the easiness of easy days. All that said, I do my long runs as progressions, so I do spend some time every week in that zone as well.

Annnnnd you're wicked fasta than me!

Coach Jeff ROC wrote:

outsiderunner wrote:

If your max HR is that high, then you should have no problem going higher than 145 on easier days. My max HR is around 195, and I have no problem running 160 regularly.

Theoretically, yeah. In my experience, I've improved more by keeping easy days quite easy. I want to nail my workout days, and everything else is easy volume. It may be coincidental, but I began to really break through a plateau two years ago when I resolved to keep the easy days palpably different from the workout days. Over the past few months, I've been increasing the intensity of workouts and really enjoy the easiness of easy days. All that said, I do my long runs as progressions, so I do spend some time every week in that zone as well.

Annnnnd you're wicked fasta than me!

this is good training advice.

Thanks Coach Jeff, BTW I think from what I've read your HR and OR's is still very high for your age. I'm not really sure what my max is. I'd guess not that high.

Signed up for a half on April 28th. 13 weeks from now. My training plan is going to just be based off of minutes and keeping HR at 138-142ish average. @ 145 I'll slow down. Going to try this for 7-8 weeks. If things go good mileage will increase on its own. I'm actually surprised at how many miles I've done this week.

Mon-60

Tue-60

Wed-90

Thur-60

Fri-60

Sat-90 or a half depending how I feel

Sun-30-60

observer of threads wrote:

outsiderunner wrote:

If your max HR is that high, then you should have no problem going higher than 145 on easier days. My max HR is around 195, and I have no problem running 160 regularly.

This is very bad training advice.

I knew this would be coming, of course without a known user name, but we all know who it probably is, for it is the “voice of reason” coming from the same corner of cookie-cutter, canned running approaches—the only ones that are effective, of course—and that *might* apply to mostly high schoolers and college students...perhaps. There I said it.

It is a one-size-fits-all dictatorial voice that simply cannot be contradicted.. Do so, and you bring on all kinds of meciless insult, not just “criticism.” Yet, the logic of this voice seems to be grounded mostly in this: running like a wimp all week, but for one day in that week when one gets all John Wayne, goes to a track, and tries to run crazy fast, perhaps risking injury or major disappointment, enough to want (or need) to quit running, if such a state of affairs persists. The next day, this person is “stumbling” (a direct quote here) through his easy run, and could barely even run these easy, snail-pace miles. And if someone sees a problem or issue in all of this, he is considered a fool (insert a more insulting term, as that is the reality here) who is giving “very bad training advice.”

Look, if your HR is 200+ and you are running 160, you are stll below 80% of capacity and, more importantly, you are running good, solid aerobic miles. You are also teaching yourself how to run, using a proper stride, and not some shuffle step thing that will only confuse your body when race time comes. Why are you so afraid to give yourself a bit of a challenge on a near-day-to-day basis? Why are you so afraid to do some actual running everyday? Why are you so afraid of doing medium or high-end aerobic running, especially when you will be racing mostly longer distances (the half and full)? And why are you acting as if you were some type of track runner when your are a road racer? Head to the roads (and hills) and teach your body that which it will need to know on race day—how to run fast *on the roads*...how to perfect a long, steady, brisk stream, mile after mile.

High school and college are long gone. Train for what lies ahead. The key is in doing medium and high-end aerobic work. Along with this, be consistent and pile up the miles, especially in longer runs, not in snippets. It could get you a 10-minute PR in the marathon, even though you are older now. It could even make you a happier, more confident runner...one who knows what a real running stride feels like.

All the best to you...

it's interesting how quickly you dismiss anything scientifically based as cookie-cutter. this is just a dismissive tactic that avoids dealing with the actual principles of training.

if anything, your approach is cookie cutter because it's basically the same thing every day. you already had a 2:14 runner eloquently break this down to you a few months ago. ultimately how you run is up to you, but the notion of you telling others how to train is ridiculous.

I am being ridiculous? You are welcome to post your training here at any time, as the regulars here do on a weekly basis. You are also welcome to share your accomplishments, PRs, age, background, etc. As DietBacon and others have said, and any sane person would know: there is more than one way to skin a cat. The “ridiculous” person is the one who thinks otherwise.