Why are distance runners such bleeding hearts?

"Conservatism makes no poetry, breathes no prayer, has no invention; it is all memory. Reform has no gratitude, no prudence, no husbandry."

Ralph Waldo Emerson

I slant toward the Republican side of the spectrum, but I'd be happy if we put another moderate like Clinton in the White House. Heck, he was more of a republican than some republicans. Just maybe someone a little stronger on foreign policy than Clinton though.

Californian wrote:

I slant toward the Republican side of the spectrum, but I'd be happy if we put another moderate like Clinton in the White House. Heck, he was more of a republican than some republicans. Just maybe someone a little stronger on foreign policy than Clinton though.

Were this disseminated on a large scale, several million morbidly obese Americans would drop dead of heart attacks brought on by ferocious guttural laughter.

I'm not a huge fan of Clinton, but he did a good job of not screwing things up. I like a president who lets Greenspan (or whoever is chairman of the Fed) handle the economy.

Any person elected to president in contemporary times shares several common traits:

1. Little compunction about lying: Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush have all lied on many an occasion. In Reagan's case, perhaps it is possible that he was actually senile enough that some of the Iran Contra stuff actually passed him by, but the others, definitely.

2. A great deal of money or scheming abilities sufficient enough to acquire a great deal of money. Soft money scandals, etc., all these people are greedy, and all of them want as much money as possible.

3. Hunger for power. Only person I can think of in recent times to turn down his maximum allowable terms was Lyndon Johnson, who could have run again because he only took over for Kennedy with 1 year remaining. Of the rest, all want power and the perks of the office.

4. Playing to the lowest common denominator. "Moderates" are not intrinsically moral people, but, politically speaking, they are more often than not players to the lowest common denominator and so vague about their positions that they can switch them as the wind blows to attract whatever voting bloc is largest in sheer numbers.

Politics is a depressing business, and so are modern candidates. Kerry and Bush? Both of them SUCK when speaking about all human beings who could have assumed the role of president.

But they had the right combo of money, butt kissing, false personality, and all the rest that makes a politician.

What a crock of horse crap.

Yes we do spend more than the rest of the world however our economy is heads and shoulders above everybody elses. That's the difference. You can't look at how much they spend straight up but rather it's better to look at the percentage of GDP the government spends on the military. I don't have the numbers with me but I know that the percentage is far smaller than many other countries and is somewhere around 6-8% and there's no way it's above 10%. There's the difference

True Dat wrote:

I'll tell you this as a card carrying member of the GOP, we centrist capitalists are frightened by the likes of James Dobson and Ralph Reed for they are really no different than the religious extremeists we are currently fighting in the War on Terror. .

Well, since you are a Republican, I repsect you admitting that fact (well to be fair, the religious extremists on your sides on not cutting off heads of people, but they don't want to drag us back to the time before the Enlightenment, and into the Dark Ages of no-reason again). BUT......even though you do admit the danger of the extreme religious fundamentalists in your party, I think you are far underestimating their control of the GOP right now. Didn't you see what happened with Terri Schiavo? Aren't you waching Tom Delay and Bill Frists' pandering to them? Don't you know Bush BUILT his re-election plan on getting every fundamentalist possible to the polls? Don't you realize that the real issue behind this "nuclear option" of getting rid of filibusters of judges is all about getting far right judges on the bench who will judge the way the religious right wants them to?

Currently, Executive and Legislative branches are clearly controlled by the GOP, and the Supreme Court has far more GOP-appointees than Dem-appointes. But that is not enough. The GOP, at the behest of their most powerful supporters, the far right Christian fundamentalists, are trying to get every Bush nominee through to the federal benches. They want a CLEAR control of the Executive Branch too. When one party controls EVERYTHING, and that party is at the beck and call of the extreme parts of the party, then WE ARE IN TROUBLE. We are teetering on that brink right now.

The only good news is: when one party controls that much, they get complacent, abuse their power, and the people get outraged. That is also, not coincidentally, starting to occur (look at Bush's poll ratings these days, and look at the negative reaction to the Schiavo involvement by the GOP). So maybe things are starting to look up and turn the corner.

Jsquire: I know you must be an econ guy because of your 'economic winners and losers' comment. You are right, there are economic winners and losers, but why? There are winners because they work harder, are more creative/inventive, they push their mental and physical limitations, and generally have more to offer. That's what's great about this country. If you are better than someone at something, there is a payoff. I may be a cold hearted conservative to you but I love that we do have some control in our success, and we all know the rules. You MUST be better than someone else if you want to be successful.

True Dat wrote:

Conscience may not be the regulator that keeps corporations in check but the legal system certainly would. Wrongful death suits and criminal prosecutions would put companies out-of-business in a hurry.

shit out of luck when you don't have money for a good attorney, huh?

layin' tha pipe wrote:

Jsquire: I know you must be an econ guy because of your 'economic winners and losers' comment. You are right, there are economic winners and losers, but why? There are winners because they work harder, are more creative/inventive, they push their mental and physical limitations, and generally have more to offer. That's what's great about this country. If you are better than someone at something, there is a payoff. I may be a cold hearted conservative to you but I love that we do have some control in our success, and we all know the rules. You MUST be better than someone else if you want to be successful.

The "winners" are often the ones that were born with the money/support/opportunities to have the free time to better themselves.

layin' tha pipe wrote:

Jsquire: I know you must be an econ guy because of your 'economic winners and losers' comment. You are right, there are economic winners and losers, but why? There are winners because they work harder, are more creative/inventive, they push their mental and physical limitations, and generally have more to offer. That's what's great about this country. If you are better than someone at something, there is a payoff. I may be a cold hearted conservative to you but I love that we do have some control in our success, and we all know the rules. You MUST be better than someone else if you want to be successful.

Not so fast. Adam Smith NEVER dreamed of "winners" and "losers" in the way you've framed them. When one offers an argument it is imperative that he/she knows what they are talking about. You need a course in Capitalist Calculus.

True Dat wrote:

James Dobson and Ralph Reed ... are really no different than the religious extremeists we are currently fighting in the War on Terror.

You're right--I hate it when they decapitate their hostages!

I never said that Adam Smith coined those words. But yes, I agree with that assessment. There ARE winners and losers, and if Adam Smith disagrees, he's wrong. If you're an econ guy you know that profs talk about economic 'winners and losers' alot in different situations. My interpretation may not be on the button, text book econ stuff, but its the way I see it, and its on point with alot of people in the econ community. If I'm so off base, then be kind enough to tell me how it really is, oh enlightened one.

True Dat wrote:

Really? So with Americans split nearly 50 / 50 at the polls and the last two presidential contests being so tight, only the 120,000,000 "extremeists" from both parties bothered to vote?

I'll let you ponder that.

I think you are responding to me, but I'm not really sure. Yes, the last few(and most) presidential elections were tight. Yes, most people tend to hover near the center of the political spectrum. No, I never said most voters are extremists. Okay, i've pondered and i still see no evidence that a centrist party of clinton dems and fiscalally conservative repubs are going to form a party to fight the religious wack jobs of the right. I also see no way it is possible in our current government structure to form a popular centrist party, like you previously stated was going to happen, in the near future. The whole idea is to get as far to your side of the arbitrary center as possible, while still getting elected. Enlighten me.

They're bleeding hearts because they've been brainwashed by academia and the media all their lives. They wouldn't know reality if it kicked them in the nuts. That's why they look at things through the rose tinted glasses of white liberal guilt instead of the harsh light of reality. Stop getting your history from PC / Marxist professors and textbooks. Stop getting your news from the one eyed Bolshevist in the living room. The media is run by a bunch of red diaper babies / grandbabies - and in reality, they hate you!

Why is it that every Christian is a "right wing religious wack job"?

Care to answer that one?

I think many of you consider, wrongfully, that any religious person is a racist Southerner sitting on his porch with a shotgun in his lap.

Knows the score wrote:

They're bleeding hearts because they've been brainwashed by academia and the media all their lives. They wouldn't know reality if it kicked them in the nuts. That's why they look at things through the rose tinted glasses of white liberal guilt instead of the harsh light of reality. Stop getting your history from PC / Marxist professors and textbooks. Stop getting your news from the one eyed Bolshevist in the living room. The media is run by a bunch of red diaper babies / grandbabies - and in reality, they hate you!

Wow, you actually were able to pull out every imaginable rigth-wing created cliche in one short paragraph.....quite an accomplishment even for a brainedwashed-by-Fox-news clone like yourself.

"wouldn't know reality if it kicked them in the nuts." Beautiful, just beautiful. What is reality? Oh yes, the "rela world," the "business world," Coporate America, where profits are all, and people are just expendable automatons built to produce. Yes, what a reality it is.

"white liberal guilt." Oh yes, I've heard a lot about that one from neo-cons like you. It this very guilt that allows the East African to get away with doping, while white runners are busted, right? And it is this "white liberal guilt" that causes some Americans to actually look shamefully on chapters of USA history (like SLAVERY, and no civil rights until fairly recently), while we should REALLY be celebrating such events as simply "taking the bulls by the horn", "doing what needed to be done for commerc", etc, etc, right? What we should be ashamed of is that we gave blacks any rights at all, or that we didn't pick smarter slaves, right? That's what we should be doing in the "harsh light of reality", correct? look, I just want to learn from you oh neo-con master, teach me!

And I now realize, from you, that everone who does not share your view of the world is a Marxist, commie, red-coated bastard, right?? Every media person except Fox News, every newspaper 'cept the Wall Street Journal, and virtually EVERY professor at virtually EVERY university, right? Wow.......we are OVER-RUN with communist sympathizers. No wonder we are not attacking China right now.....there are too many Marxists in this country preventing it from happening. Too bad ....because our last serious attack on a Commie county worked out so well!

Thank you oh Josehph Mc-necon-Arthy. You have enlightened me to the reality of the world.

or when they bomb abortion clincs

AZTrackie wrote:

or when they bomb abortion clincs

HA HA........good point! To continue, and I hate it.....

... when they take out hits on Judges who do not make rulings that fit their extremist views.

(it happened in the Schiavo case. Problem was, most of the judges involved were GOP appointed and religious people, but too bad, whenever a decision goes against the extreme right, the judges are atuomatically labeled as ACTIVIST JUDGES. Oh do they just wet their pants over that little phrase and apply as often as they can!)

By the way, here is some MORE PROOF that the extreme religious right of the GOP is trying to strongly influence every area of our gov't, and is getting away with it thanks to the current Bush leadership:

Critic of evangelicals relieved of Air Force post

Academy calls move a 'standard transition'

By T.R. Reid, Washington Post  |  May 14, 2005

DENVER -- An Air Force chaplain who protested that evangelical Christians were trying to ''subvert the system" by winning converts among cadets at the Air Force Academy was removed from administrative duties last week, just as the Pentagon began an in-depth study of alleged religious intolerance among cadets and commanders at the school.

''They fired me," said Captain MeLinda Morton, a Lutheran minister who was removed as executive officer of the chaplain unit May 4. ''They said I should be angry about these outside groups who reported on the strident evangelicalism at the academy. The problem is, I agreed with those reports."

But Lieutenant Colonel Laurent Fox, an academy spokesman, said: ''The choice of a new executive officer was a standard transition. The situation is, both the commanding officer [of the chaplain unit] and the executive officer are scheduled to leave this post in a couple of months. It was decided to replace the executive officer now for reasons of continuity."

Amid a rising chorus of protests about preferential treatment for evangelical Christians -- and command pressure on nonevangelicals -- among the 4,000 cadets, a Pentagon task force is visiting the Colorado Springs campus this week to study the religious atmosphere and propose possible remedial steps.

Morton, whose removal as executive officer was first reported in USA Today, said she has not been asked to brief the task force.

Surveys of present and former cadets have shown that some students said they felt a heavy and sometimes offensive emphasis on evangelical Christianity, with praise for cadets who pronounce their ''born-again" status and insults aimed at Jews, Roman Catholics, and nonevangelical cadets.

One staff chaplain reportedly told newly arrived freshmen last summer that anyone not born again ''will burn in the fires of hell."

Such remarks have been heard for decades on the campus, according to Mikey Weinstein of Albuquerque, a 1977 academy graduate who said he has repeatedly complained to the Air Force brass about the ''religious pressure" on cadets. ''This is not Christian versus Jew," Weinstein said. ''This is the evangelical Christians against everybody else."

The Air Force's new attention to the issue stems from an earlier scandal at the school in which female cadets said commanding officers ignored or played down numerous cases of sexual assault by male students.

As part of its response to the sexual assault charges, the academy asked a team from Yale Divinity School to visit the campus during the summer training for incoming freshmen.

''We were asked to study the quality of cadet-centered pastoral care," Yale professor Kristen Leslie said. ''What we found was this very strong evangelical Christian voice just dominating. We thought that just didn't make sense in light of their mission, which was to protect and train cadets, not to win religious converts."

Morton, who was executive officer of the squadron of 16 chaplains at the academy, said she shared the concerns expressed by the study group from Yale.

''The evangelicals want to subvert the system," Morton said. ''They have a very clear social and political agenda. The evangelical tone is pervasive at the academy, and it's aimed at converting these young people who are under intense pressure anyway."

When a two-page summary of the ''Yale Report" became public this spring, Morton said, the academy's chief chaplain, Colonel Michael Whittington, responded angrily. But Morton said she agreed with the criticism in the report.

Morton said she also has criticized the academy's RSVP program, or Respecting the Spiritual Values of All People, a training unit designed to teach academy personnel to tolerate all religious views. ''I just think RSVP is a weak program," she said.

Whittington was not available for comment Thursday; academy officials said he was busy all day with the Pentagon task force.

After several ''reasonably tense" days among the academy chaplains, Morton said, she received an e-mail on May 4 from Whittington. It said a new executive officer would be named, effective immediately.

Fox, the academy spokesman, said this change was made because Whittington is retiring from the Air Force in June and Morton is due for a transfer in July to Okinawa. But Morton said the normal procedure would be to keep her in the number two post until she departs, so that she could help the unit's new commanding officer settle in.

Morton said the cadet wing at the Air Force Academy is about 90 percent Christian. She said that group is about one- third Catholic, one-third mainstream Protestant, and one-third evangelical. But the evangelicals have a much bigger voice among the chaplains, she said.

''The predominance of evangelical Christians reflects the chaplain corps of the Air Force overall," Morton said. ''The major mainstream Protestant divinity schools are no longer sending many graduates into the armed forces. And so the concentration of evangelicals among chaplains is strong through the whole service."