GEeeko wrote:
bmg wrote:Your opinion, ok. My opinion:
If Craig had a moral compass, he would not have joined such a shady group.
What right do you have to judge another man's decisions that don't have an effect on you in any way??? You have no idea who this kid is or what he stands for
Why did you use three question marks in one question?
Come back when you have calmed down.
Grenade33 wrote:
Grenadine33 wrote:Lost all respect for him. If you choose to be coached by someone who has knowingly had other athletes that dope(d) (Mary Slaney) you are dirty.
Hope he's ready for some day-long l-carnitine drips!
If he were a POC, if Rupp weren't white, etc., cucks like you wouldn't say anything. You're not even smart enough to ask yourself why you reflexively have to virtue signal and attack in such a way, even when you know the stories are about as real as the "Russians" winning the election for the Orange Skinned Man. LOL Go ahead and seek kudos from your fellow femmy voiced cucks with their civil war beards. LOL
Engels will be fine. He'll be clean. And he'll improve a lot. Meanwhile you cucks will continue to orally satisfy Aden and others like him and his athletes. Because they're OK!
What is your obsession with the word "cuck"? It's weird.
Masters Runner wrote:
Rumor has it Mary got with about every guy.
Dumb, free sex was still a thing
back in the start of her day.
Lots of men and women had free sex lives.
Let's tackle this problem.
1. Engels going to NOP hurts his image. He has to know this. Why? NOP has a reputation. One of the NOP primary doctors for years just got served a ban for a procedure that Salazar was a part of.
2. Engels is young, but he's an adult. He's got to take responsibility for decisions. People have every right to criticize
3. Engels support team failed him. This actually makes his college coach, who played a large part in this (most college coaches do because the agents/pro coaches have to go through them first), look the worst. Van Hoy played a part in orchestrating this. Similarly Flynn negotiated it. As an agent it's your job to help guide your athlete in their interest. This might be in Engels short term $ interest, but long term it makes him a marked man.
4. Nike has balls. NOP doctor is banned. Salazar is likely next. It looks like they will turn it over to Pete Julien and claim it was just Salazar.
In-the-know wrote:
Jefe in the CO wrote:This is fine as long as you throw Ajee Wilson in the same category. I've yet to see the Brojos preface her name with "Drug Cheat Ajee Wilson"...
I'm less inclined to think Slaney wasn't doing what everyone was doing in the blood packing 70s, steroid 80s, EPO 90s, drug cocktail 00s, microdosing 10s...
So to single out Slaney is to reward those who didn't come clean, either voluntarily or not.
Here is how you know someone is doping. You look at their reaction just after they have crossed the finish line and see the clock showing a ridiculous time. It is usually one of shock. Ajee Wilson showed this when she ran her AR. She was almost speechless. Hence: she knew she was not, ordinarily, capable of such a time. You see this expression on lots of folks' faces when they do something completely unexpectedly. Go back and take a look at Michael Johnson's face after he set the WR in 200. And, as we all know, that was ridiculous.
This is a dumb post. Plenty of clean athletes show shock when they run a really out-there performance. Why wouldn't they? Hell, it's how I reacted when I set my 1500 pr. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of proven dopers react with complete nonchalance - the exact opposite of shock - after amazing performances. For example, watch how Rashid Ramzi reacts when he wins world champ gold in 2005:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLa6CgqF3ngIt makes him less popular with those aware of Salazar's issues, but it probably gets him a big contract--with reductions, however--better facilities and resources to stay healthy and get better, and a better chance to succeed.
It's amazing how people post 5 paragraph posts about this and have no idea what they are talking about.
He has a lot of reductions? You have no clue.
His support team failed him? Why?
This hurts his image? With who? The loser butt hurt dudes on this forum who make up .001% of the running population?
Thetruefactmaniac wrote:
It's amazing how people post 5 paragraph posts about this and have no idea what they are talking about.
He has a lot of reductions? You have no clue.
His support team failed him? Why?
This hurts his image? With who? The loser butt hurt dudes on this forum who make up .001% of the running population?
No, he hurt his image with most track fans. Note to you, the losers who visit this forum (including you?) are THE track fans. You act like their are a ton of casual track fans out there who haven't heard of the NOP/Salazar fiasco. That's not the case.
His support team failed him because they pushed him toward NOP. If you actually know things like you claim to, you'd have already known that already. Poor Engels only thought he had a NOP offer on the table.
What other offers were on the table?
outting wrote:
Thetruefactmaniac wrote:It's amazing how people post 5 paragraph posts about this and have no idea what they are talking about.
He has a lot of reductions? You have no clue.
His support team failed him? Why?
This hurts his image? With who? The loser butt hurt dudes on this forum who make up .001% of the running population?
No, he hurt his image with most track fans. Note to you, the losers who visit this forum (including you?) are THE track fans. You act like their are a ton of casual track fans out there who haven't heard of the NOP/Salazar fiasco. That's not the case.
His support team failed him because they pushed him toward NOP. If you actually know things like you claim to, you'd have already known that already. Poor Engels only thought he had a NOP offer on the table.
This is simply not true, no matter how much you want to believe it. You think that most track fans are on LRC? Heck no. No, no, no. Most track fans are high school runners who have never been on this site. Some are former HS/college runners who only ever followed the elite side of the sport casually and only tune in for the US champs and Olympics. They have no idea who Dr. Brown is or what L carnitine is. But they know who Galen Rupp and Mo Farah are, and they know that they run for NOP. Being in NOP is a big publicity win for Engels (or anybody).
I was very surprised to see that Engels joined NOP. I don't think that he's a great fit for any of the Nike groups (OTC is a graveyard for mid-D, BTC is long distance focused) but especially NOP. For one, Salazar is not shy about the fact that his runners run their easy days pretty fast. The men are well under six minute pace, the women are in the mid-six minute pace range. One of the main reasons that Engels left NC State was they take their easy days too fast. There are multiple interviews where Engels states that they ran their easy days too fast for him and he consistently got injured. Once he transferred to Ole' Miss he started to take his easy days easier and he stayed healthy. He'll have plenty of recovery and cross training tools at his finger tips to help him stay healthy, but running those easy days fast could be tough for him. Engels has also been relatively lower mileage compared to what the Oregon Project does. Hes gotten as high as 80 but a recent interview in runner's world says that he's in the 70's range.
The timing of his decision is very interesting as well. Typically, we see athletes join a group before the U.S. Championships or after the summer racing season. This year, we saw Josh Thompson and She Collinsworth running in BTC and OTC singlets respectively at USAs. Same thing with Hasay and the Oregon project in 2013, Shelby Houlihan and Colleen Quigley in 2015 with BTC, and Courtne Frerichs in 2016 with BTC. Jenkins and Centro waited until long after the US Championships to join the Oregon Project. Ryan Hill waited until his summer season was over as well. My guess is that if Engels made the team, his contract would be X and if he missed the team it would be much lower. Since he missed the team he was likely forced into this decision because it was much more lucrative than staying with Vanhoy at Ole Miss.
It'll be interesting to see how he develops over the next few years. I wouldn't be surprised to see him drop NOP and go back to Vanhoy in 2019 or 2020.
bigtool05 wrote:
In-the-know wrote:Here is how you know someone is doping. You look at their reaction just after they have crossed the finish line and see the clock showing a ridiculous time. It is usually one of shock. Ajee Wilson showed this when she ran her AR. She was almost speechless. Hence: she knew she was not, ordinarily, capable of such a time. You see this expression on lots of folks' faces when they do something completely unexpectedly. Go back and take a look at Michael Johnson's face after he set the WR in 200. And, as we all know, that was ridiculous.
This is a dumb post. Plenty of clean athletes show shock when they run a really out-there performance. Why wouldn't they? Hell, it's how I reacted when I set my 1500 pr. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of proven dopers react with complete nonchalance - the exact opposite of shock - after amazing performances. For example, watch how Rashid Ramzi reacts when he wins world champ gold in 2005:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLa6CgqF3ng
Thats because Ramzi was completely corrupted. These new breed of drug cheats have a sort of breaking in period where they are, initially, shocked by their performances. Then, they get greedy. Then they start to believe they are really doing these performances, themselves. If you are a near National class runner, you can tell by your training what you should be capable of. Ajee was shocked at what the clock read.
dogfarts69420 wrote:
Pretty sure Centro ran 1:45 a couple years back. Also you have Mo's 1:48 to close the 5k at worlds in 2015 which points to 1:45 or lower capabilities for a guy who has run 2:08.
Drugs or no drugs, these guys can run the 800 despite training for 1500 to marathon.
Engels will do fine with Centro and Jenkins
No one should have that type of range 1:45 to 2:08. Said Aouita had that kind of range and it was preposterous, then.
Yes indeed wrote:
hfjgkhjlk wrote:The amount of pressure and backlash you guys are putting on a 22-23 year old kid coming out of college to pursue his dream is absolutely horrific.
Craig seems like a good, fun kid who loves to run. He has an opportunity coming out of college to pursue his dream. None of us have the specifics of contracts, offers, wages, coaches and terms that he was offered so none of us have the authority to jump to conclusions.
The kid has not even run his first professional race yet and already he is getting put down on the boards here. At the end of the day, very few elite runners get the opportunity to financially support themselves, and getting an offer from NOP has been shown to be the most lucrative of deals you can find in the sport for distance guys. If Craig has a moral compass and sees shady things going on, he can decide to leave. But he has the right to try to make a livelihood for the short amount of time that he can.
Regardless of how much you may hate certain groups or coaches, I really hope we can support our young, developmental athletes rather than tear down and judge them before they have even run a race.
Well said thank you!
The truth is its only a handful of old bitter angry men and a group of young loud mouths that spew the garbage here on the site. They all love to spin their uneducated tales of false perception because it makes them feel important or in the know. They really know nothing at all and have zero involvement in the sport at the elite levels to be able to give an opinion.
Engels has a great future ahead of him and I feel will do great things under the program he has chosen.
As you say all of these athletes have a moral compass and the ability to see right and wrong.
The truth is not a single athlete in the NOP program has tested negative for anything. Not a single athlete/coach/investigator has come forward with hard prosecutable evidence to indicate anybody was taking a POD's.
Engels could still make this world championship team!!! If he gets a qualifier in the 1500 (which I think he can) he may go to London as the highest finisher with a qualifying time.
First Ajee tests positive, then Engels to NOP.
Lost much respect for Ray Flynn the last couple of weeks.
Flynn was shady.
Engel had no other offers on the table. How is that possible? Every, or at lease 1 other, brand had to be interested.
The real question is how much money did Capriotti offer Flynn to sheppard and streamline Engels to the drugged group?
Agents are just as bad as Salazar!
Confirmed as going to be coached by Pete Julian.
Anyone know what Julian's training programme or style looks like in comparison to Salazar's?
I know it's been mentioned he works closely and discusses the training with Salazar, but I got the impression he writes the training himself. Jenkins seems to have really improved with Julian giving him some of the 1-2-1 focus Salazar perhaps couldn't offer, would be great to see Engels have the same type of progression the next 12 months.
Julian Training Fan wrote:
Confirmed as going to be coached by Pete Julian.
Anyone know what Julian's training programme or style looks like in comparison to Salazar's?
I know it's been mentioned he works closely and discusses the training with Salazar, but I got the impression he writes the training himself. Jenkins seems to have really improved with Julian giving him some of the 1-2-1 focus Salazar perhaps couldn't offer, would be great to see Engels have the same type of progression the next 12 months.
Engels can still make this US team!!!
As the Olympic champion, Centrowitz can receive an invitation to WC. This would give the US, four on the 1500 team. Wouldn't be surprised if a deal is already in the making.
bmg wrote:
hfjgkhjlk wrote:If Craig has a moral compass and sees shady things going on, he can decide to leave.
Your opinion, ok. My opinion:
If Craig had a moral compass, he would not have joined such a shady group.
Agreed.