Is Eliud Kipchoge on the juice?

No way is he on the juice.

On the sauce maybe but definitely not the juice.

T Funke wrote:

No way is he on the juice.

On the sauce maybe but definitely not the juice.

Wasn't in the old days of O.J. Simpson that Miami had the oranges but Buffalo had the juice??

Did El Keniano really write that? His comment is removed.

A new low for him, but just furter evidence he has no emotional control and are as objective as a rock.

So you confirm you wrote that. Get a grip. And before you continue to harass Clerk, why not argue his points? Are a mature discussion and disagreement so hard? You're a child

El Keniano wrote:

Conundrum wrote:

Clerk made an excellent and informative post. Its ok for you to try and dispute it.

But you tell Clerk to "do humanity a favor by killing yourself".....then you say the people here are nuts.

Do you see the irony in that?

But honestly, a "death threat"? Seriously?

Do you see the irony?

Livestrong, how can you be su sure about the possibility to improve the time in marathon of 3% using EPO ?

I can, on the contrary, tell you that, in marathon, you can't have any advantage by EPO, but only disadvantage. This coming from my experience of coaching directly CLEAN marathon runners of Kenya at the level of 2:03:06 (Mosop), 2:04:56 (Maiyo), 2:05:04 (Abel Kirui twice World Champion and Silver Olympic medal), 2:06:27 (Geoffrey Kirui, current World Champion and winning in Boston), and clean marathon runners of Norway at the level of 2:05:48 (Sondre Moen, current European Record Holder), and of following with programs (applied by Gemedu Degefu) Ethiopian runners at the level of 2:04:32 (Tsegay Mekonnen), 2:04:33 (Lemi Berhanu) and 2:04:50 (Dino Sefir), for naming only the best.

EPO can increase the POWER of the engine, because is connected with the maximal oxygen output, that is not a relevant factor for a competition lasting more than 2 hours, where the athletes use only a PERCENTAGE of their power, and the most important characteristic is the ossidative ability.

But, of course, you show to be absolutely sure about something that is completely wrong, because this is the FASHION for people not knowing athletics and happy to show their faith in everything they have in their mind, not corroborated with any REAL fact.

While you speak, and pseudo-scientists organize useless researches in order to have some budget and to do some publication, some coaches (not many, in any case) continue to work giving to the athletes rules, discipline, mentality, stimuli and goals, and the CLEAN performances continue to improve.

Welcome in the world of skepticism and of people not interested to find the truth.

@Canova

Right. Ped's are banned because they do the opposite of what we think they do - they impede performance. Perhaps WADA should have explained that. On the other hand it is a bit of a puzzle that cracking down on substances like EPO's has seen a noticeable falling off in times for middle and long distance events in recent years. An exception might be the marathon, where most of the top competitors come from countries notorious for inadequate testing and where "clean" athletes are lately being busted at up to a rate of 3 a week.

you walked into this one wrote:

Probability guarantees that somebody more talented will be born to beat any of a former generation's greats.

TL;DNR: You just proved Kahneman's point how hard it is for us to "acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance..."

No, probability does guarantee this, no matter how you define talent.

That Kipchoge ran the fastest marathon ever does not prove that he is the most talented. How fast one runs depends on host of factors. Some of these, such as tactics, weather, gear and course conditions, have nothing to do with talent. So far, we have only a dim idea how much of these contributed to Kipchoge's run today.

Mr. Canova, do you think Bekele still has a shot at the WR after that run today?

Livstrong7 wrote:

@Canova

Right. Ped's are banned because they do the opposite of what we think they do - they impede performance. Perhaps WADA should have explained that..

You missed the post where Canova claims EPO doesn’t work in specific Kenyans because they are genetically distinct from every other human on the planet.

Very soon, WADA will likely parrot some version of Canova’s lies. Thanks Reedie!! I mean, it’s all good in Russia, so anything is possible.

I feel sorry for clean athletes.

Internet Protocol 101 wrote:

well actually wrote:

If he killed himself after this you would likely be prosecuted, so it is a death threat of sorts. Just because it is the internet doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want.

Agreed. That was way beyond necessary to post such a comment. I have no clue who you are, but if I were you I'd be retracting it quickly and making an apology, a big one. That was no too bright.

Thank you two for going out of your way to be more ignorant and stupid than people speculating about doping. If an anonymous poster suggests to anotheranonymous person they should kill themselves and the other person responds by killing themselves no crime has been committed. All you have is one anonymous poster who is an aszhole and another anonymous poster who had pre-existing serious mental problems. If the suicidal freak show was that susceptible to the power of suggestion they should have been institutionalized long before they killed themselves over ine offensive comment. Trying to find the person responsible for their death would likely end at the person who killed themselves but other than that you would lol to his guardians and medical support team for failing him.

True this, sadly wrote:

you walked into this one wrote:

There is no way to know.

These are words to live by. They should be the motto of these boards.

As the psychologist Danny Kahneman says:

"A puzzling limitation of our minds is our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world..."

The incredible certitude of his assertion creates an absolutely flaming hypocrisy.

ROTFLMAO

You probably believe this shiite religiously. Grow up.

To paraphrase the once Nazi Minister for Culture, when I hear the word "outlier" I reach for my gun. Herr Goering at least had an aversion for mealy-mouthed bullshit (except when it came from his boss) but the use of the term "outlier" to pretend that what we smell is a perfume and not a turd similarly sticks in the craw. Kipchoge, by any definition, is an incredible athlete, but how are we supposed to believe that the very best clean athlete of this era can beat the very best doped athletes - and we know running is full of them - and not just beat them but obliterate them?

Pop pop, you are an idiot and a liar. I never said EPO doesn't work on SPECIFIC Kenyans, I said doesn't work with athletes with high talent, born, living and training in altitude, using PROPER TRAINING, that of course is not what the subjects of the researches use.

After the result of Sondre Moen last year, I changed my version, NOT SPEAKING about people born, living and training in altitude, but about athletes with high talent LIVING and TRAINING in altitude for very long and continuous periods of time (of course, always using proper training).

There are many explanations about this, but who has faith in the EPO improvement, and NO KNOWLEDGE about training at high level and its effect, is blind, believing only about they want to believe.

But, when you put in my mouth something I never said, the only reality is that you are not honest and a liar. And, for those reasons, I consider you an idiot.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

You probably believe this shiite religiously. Grow up.

You believe in your shiite religiously. Why don't you grow up?

Obviously, none of us know, so I'm just going to try to appreciate what he has done, not just with this WR but throughout his career. Amazing.

Renato Canova wrote:

Pop pop, you are an idiot and a liar.

(...)

But, when you put in my mouth something I never said, the only reality is that you are not honest and a liar. And, for those reasons, I consider you an idiot.

Well said, Renato.

And you could add a few more.

And, about you, who are all these "well known" doped athletes in the marathon ? Do you know that, in the list of top 100 all time, the only athletes caught for doping were the maroccan Goumri (biological passport) who with 2:05:30 is number 60 all time, and Wilson Erupe Loyanai, who was banned after an OOC test of 4th Jan 2013, and when he was doped, 9 days later (13th Jan) ran his WORST HM in Houston (62:12), and bettered his PB AFTER the period of ban in 2016 (2:05:13 after the ban, when before the ban had 2:05:37) ?

If you go to see the all time list of 100m, you can find 38 athletes officially banned for doping (some for only 3 months, some for 4 years).

And the fact that some of the best middle distance runners, such as Asbel Kiprop and Kipyegon Bett, were tested positive (like Ruth Jebet, for example), means that the antidoping now works, and the official of the Kenyan antidoping are motivated to catch the cheaters, also for cleaning their image looking at the new lab authorized by WADA.

So, where are all these well known doped athletes among the bests in Marathon ?

Renato Canova wrote:

EPO can increase the POWER of the engine, because is connected with the maximal oxygen output, that is not a relevant factor for a competition lasting more than 2 hours, where the athletes use only a PERCENTAGE of their power, and the most important characteristic is the ossidative ability.

If the above is true, can you explain why it is that EPO use is so widespread in race-walking?