You know, what's actually hilarious is how quickly letsrun goes from making doping accusations to attacking people who make doping accusations in the real world.
Even more funny when you think about all of the idiots who say, "if you're so tough, you should use your real name"
HRE wrote:
Crying wolf seems to be all that's left. When you have every agency that's supposed to control doping in the sport run by people whose concern is preserving the sport's image and taking bribes rather than identifying and removing cheaters the only recourse I can see is to make so much noise about the issue that the people concerned more with preserving the sport's image see that they've failed to do so and that the only way to restore the image is to go ahead and actually identify and remove PED users.
I don't know how much time you've spent on this board, but for years we've had people here asking, maybe even demanding, that people in the sport who know what's going on say something. Now that's begun happening and the counterpoint is "Prove it," or "S/he is just an attention whore."
Where Magness is clearly right is that there is NO trust. If there was we wouldn't have these sorts of discussions. Yes, it's unfair if this was a legitimate performance but that's not Magness' fault and he's making a legitimate point that many others who know the sport well are making..
Did you not notice the other 3 runners under 30?
Peter Andersson wrote:
Let's face it; the women's WR in the 10000 was long overdue to go down. Mostly because the 10000 is almost dead outside championsships. Improvement has been standing still for twenty years.
Standout Tirunesh Dibaba was only challenged once in her entire pre-baby career and Melkamesh (world nr 2 so far with 29:53) was never a threat to her in champ races.
The record she SHATTERED by 14 seconds with no rabbit, confidently in her 2nd 10k ever, dodging lapped athletes for the final 20 minutes, in not perfect conditions was one of the more controversial records ever. The closest anyone had come to it in the 17 years it has been around was 29:53. Some people theorize that it was run on a short track since the race and facility were documented so poorly, the splits were so inconceivable -- the standing 5k and 3k world records were surpassed en route -- and the facility was demolished shortly after the event. Even without the track being short, the coach was fired after six of his athletes tested positive, so she was clearly doped to the gills.
Ayana broke a record that controversial by 14 seconds.
It is reasonable to raise some questions.
Magness should be thankful we have records. Now, he knows who to accuse of doping.
7 of the top 22 performances of all time were just run in one race. That's 31% folks.
Someone needs to re-certify the track. It is probably 3-5m short. EVERYONE in the race needs to be tested.
magness became known in high school for running 4:01 back when it was rare. he was later known for his blogging about sports science, which he actually did academic research for, and then being a coach for Salazar before leaving and accusing Salazar of unsavory practices.
With so many record in the same race makes me wonder if the track is short.
And you know Huddle is clean & every one else is dropped?
And you know Huddle is clean & every one else is dropped?
CrazyAllAround wrote:
It is probably 3-5m short. EVERYONE in the race needs to be tested.
Then watch EVERYONE crash into the hurdles.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
Sports Fan wrote:I don't know from what planet you're just flown from, but the reality on this planet is that since 1992 there has not been a single world record holder in distance running, who would not be doped. The advantage of EPO doping was simply so large (something like 40 sec. in the 10 km) that clean athletes had no chance.
What stopped Americans from using EPO, starting in 1992?
If you look at the development of performances and the sudden explosion of times in 1995/1996, you will find few European and American runners, who would participate on it. Only in 1997, we started to see some Spaniards and Portuguese with improbable improvements. I don't know, why they were not competing, but the fact is that Africa became the world center of EPO cheating.
If that were the case we may have seen some fast 800 prelims.
Hinder an wrote:
With so many record in the same race makes me wonder if the track is short.
bobgob wrote:
Remind us again why Steve Magness is famous? Being a great coach? An excellent Journalist perhaps? No, he came to people's attention because of the accusations he made against Salazar and Rupp.
So why are you surprised he's accusing/insinuating that Ayana is doping?
It's what Magness is know for. It's what he does best.
If you didn't know who Steve Magness was before that you must not follow running very closely.
rojo wrote:
George Hirsch wrote:He is not in a position to know this. He is seriously detracting from the overall effort against cheating by making claims he has zero ability to back up. He dos not work for the IAAF.
I think Magness is hurting the antidoping fight by saying that and I say that as an admirer of his. You can't just say something is laughable because it's fast.
To me, a coach should know the idea that a 14:05 athlete (and come on she's run 14:12 with horrible pacing) running 29:17for 10k isn't that shocking. So unless you were already calling her a doper before tonight, you shouldn't be doing it now.
At cornell, we had a couple guys run faster than 29:17 and none of them were sub 14:00 in the 5000.
We're about to update our 10k recap with this sentiment.
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/08/history-rio-almaz-ayana-smashes-womens-10000-world-record-2917-45-greatest-womens-10000-ever-molly-huddle-breaks-american-record-6th/Here is what we wrote:
LRCwrote:
Whenever a seemingly unbreakable record is broken, one that was set by someone who may have confessed to doping, people are going to speculate whether the new mark is itself legitimate. We hadn’t even finished recapping the race and the messageboard was already exploding with speculation (Ayana 10,000 Meter WR!!! 29:17:46 *Who in the top 8 isnt doping? Rio 10k)
Here’s why Ayana’s mark could be legitimate. First, she’s already run 14:12 for 5000 this year. Greg McMillan’s conversion calculator converts today’s 29:17 to a 14:06, which certainly is a time that seems doable for Ayana if you’ve watched any of her poorly rabbitted WR attempts at 5000. So if you weren’t already accusing Ayana of being on drugs before today’s run, you shouldn’t just start because she 29:17 as already was in the ballpark equivalent of the old world record.
Then you add in the variables. Today’s weather — mid-60’s and still — was great for running fast. Ayana had a de facto rabbit for the first half of the race in Nawowuna.
At the post race press conference, the Ethiopian translator called Nawowuna a pacer saying, “(Ayana) was comfortable with the pacerâ€.
Ayana ran that 14:12 in early June and has had an extra two months to peak. And it’s very possible Ayana is a better 10k runner than 5k, so those equivalencies may not be generous enough.
Plus, there have been very few races in history where the world’s top 10,000 runners have gotten together and tried to run fast. Before today, six of the 10 fastest women’s 10k’s in history had been run in championship finals, and those races are usually run in hot conditions without a rabbit. Today was a rare opportunity with great weather and an unofficial rabbit. Ayana in the only second 10,000 of her life took full advantage.
Not everyone is a believer, however. Sweden’s Sarah Lahti, who was 12th in 31:28.43 (a national record), suggested Ayana was not clean after the race. Ayana was asked for comment and, through a translator, responded as follows:
“Three basic things. I did my training, specially 500 and 10,000. Number two, I praise the Lord. God has given me everything, every blessing. My doping is my training. My doping is Jesus. Otherwise, nothing. I am crystal clear.â€
Huddle, when asked for her thoughts on Ayana’s time, said:
“These places might be a bit mobile…Who knows? That’s a very, very fast time.â€
14:11 is worth 29'30. Nothing to see here. She improved 15 secs on an equivalent PB... I dont remember anyone insinuating she was doping when she ran 14:11.... One has to wonder why these ex-athletes are so sore... unless they live in cuckoo-land of course...
800 Coach 23 wrote:
sdfsfgasfd wrote:Who cares what you have against Magness, his observations are right. That race was absurdly doped. No way Huddle should have been so far back running such an incredible time.
Why is it that you American idiots feel the reference point for doping is the top American?
American basketball is so much ahead of the rest of the world that they must be doped. C'mon Magness..get a life. Huddle and the other top American women would not be able to put in one workout with these Ethiopian and Kenyan women.
........because of doping
Sports Fan wrote:
If you look at the development of performances and the sudden explosion of times in 1995/1996, you will find few European and American runners, who would participate on it. Only in 1997, we started to see some Spaniards and Portuguese with improbable improvements. I don't know, why they were not competing, but the fact is that Africa became the world center of EPO cheating.
Why wouldn't Americans take full advantage of this (at the time) undetectable wonder drug?
To George Hirsch: The man before you wont break three hours, the man behind you wont break three hours but you will ..
I met you at the Wharton clinic (active isolated stretching)
George Hirsch wrote:
Ben L Wrong wrote:Because he's saying that testing is a joke (covered tests by NF's, IAAF bribery, silly excuses as "I didn't hear the doorbell", etc). Or inexistent for many East Africans -out of competition-.
He is not in a position to know this. He is seriously detracting from the overall effort against cheating by making claims he has zero ability to back up. He dos not work for the IAAF. He coaches no athletes who are at that level. It is hugely damaging to make claims that exceed one's knowledge. The doping problem is huge and it will take time to solve it. Statistically speaking, Magness has likely accused a number of clean athletes of cheating--a responsible coach would NEVER want to be in that position. If he really cared that much he would quit coaching and get involved in the enforcement end, help the folks who are doing the testing to get better at it, or talk about how to overcome Diack-style corruption. Instead he wants to just shoot from the him Donald Trump style and not actually help.
So Steve has no way of knowing that testing is a joke but you can come here and say "The doping problem is huge...?"
Are you in the position to know this?
Steve does coach at the professional level also in case you didn't know.
And NO coaches, and athletes alike, should not sit silently watching the sport implode because of crooks running the regulating bodies. That is f*cking laughable.
I'll agree with Magness that it is sad that doping has taken some of the wow factor off of performances like this. It's hard to know what to trust. That being said, I think you have to be careful about at least part of Magness's logic, the part where he implies he knows the limits of performance for each athlete and what their "clean" measuring stick should be. Is Huddle's run any more or less amazing given her past performances than others (like Ayana) who he seems to think are clearly doped?
KAV wrote:
14:11 is worth 29'30. Nothing to see here. She improved 15 secs on an equivalent PB... I dont remember anyone insinuating she was doping when she ran 14:11.... One has to wonder why these ex-athletes are so sore... unless they live in cuckoo-land of course...
Is this internet sarcasm? Of course she was.