Doping in Kenya English video

3 Brits, one already under suspicion

Freddie the non athlete who " trained " with Mo, says I didn't do it.

Citizen:

"http://citizentv.co.ke/sports/ard-duped-me-to-implicate-kenya-in-doping-says-athlete-133194/#.V4PS2zyq06J.twitter

The Press and Journal ( Scotland ) - 2013

"A training trip to Kenya paid dividends for Glasgow runner Thomas McDonald when he smashed his personal best time in sprinting to victory in yesterday’s Aviemore 10km.

The Bellahouston Harrier recorded 32min 13sec to defeat 2012 winner Willie Richardson (Irvine AC) by 2sec.

McDonald’s time is 57sec quicker than he has run previously."

This is the guy Freddie says went with him.

Why would a 33 min 10k guy go to Kenya for 5 weeks to drop a minute off his time?

Why is no one covering this?

Or talking about this?

Rekrunner, do you wait several days to see what the consensus says about an issue, and then take the opposite stand?

I've called you a troll because of your irrational evaluation of evidence, and your speculative assumptions that are inconsistent with your own logic.

You explained yourself, and I backed off the troll accusations; it was clear you were serious about, whatever it was, you were doing.

But I read your comments about Seppelt, and it strikes me as nothing more than stirring up an argument. You are trolling. With commenta like "Russian athletes are victims of the public, thanks to Seppelt"

your intention is to irritate and anatgonize everyone with rational thought provesses and knowledge of the situation.

IAAF was not acting on their information until Seppelt made his documentaries. WADA was not acting on the information. Their own reports refernce "claims brought up by ARD..." Athletics Kenya would not have arrested the doping doctors until Seppelt made this documentary.

Russians are doping irrespective of Seppelt's actions. They get caught and sanctioned, and you blame Seppelt?

You are either trolling, or they biggest proponent of omertà and silencing whistleblowers.

After our last spout, I said I would genuinely consider your posts, and to back off xalling you a troll. But Incannot hold that anymore. Either you are a troll, or the worst kind of person in your defence of crime, fraud, and lies: the kind to actually believe the backwards logic, convoluted causality you post.

I suggest the rest of the forum let rekrunner type away, but not to waste your time arguing with such a brick wall.

Apologies for the fat-thumb errors, I had to post from my phone.

Clerk wrote:

Rekrunner, do you wait several days to see what the consensus says about an issue, and then take the opposite stand?

You are either trolling, or they biggest proponent of omertà and silencing whistleblowers.

Or paid to do this? Not impossible.

Rekrunner, I like your factual analysis and calm disposition but I find it odd that you adhere so strongly to Renato's line that EPO isn't really of use to elites who train at altitude, when you aren't a doctor and (presumably) haven't experienced EPO for yourself. And I don't see how Renato knows either, given that none of his athletes take EPO (so how can he know whether it 'works' or not - anecdotal evidence doesn't cut it, I'm afraid).

We can all Google around for research papers and find something to support our personal agendas. However, to infer that altitude training and EPO taking are essentially equivalent because they both boost red blood cell production really is simplistic.

I'm no doctor either (well I am, but not a medical doctor), however even I know that EPO can stimulate greater production levels, to the point of giving people heart attacks. Remember the cyclists of the '90's?

Clerk, AK could not arrest any doctor, because they are not Police. Why the "doctor" (who is not a doctor, but a herborist) could be arrested only now ? Because now in Kenya there is the law against who administers doping, such as in Italy, Spain, France, but not in UK and US.

About Seppelt, I already gave my thought in the past : I respect him for what he did in Russia, his investigation (with the aid of whistleblowers) was deep and clear, but I absolutely don't respect him for what he did in Kenya. I stay in Kenya long time, I know the situation on the ground, I was the first informing about kenyan doping (of second and third level athletes) directly the Chairman Isaia Kiplagat in 2012, and I was the only coach Seppelt spoke with. He CREATED the situation for having a scoop, and now continues with fake documentaries, that don't explain anything but produce a widespread idea that all the best athletes are doped.

His doctors are not doctors, his athletes are not athletes, his contacts don't have anything to do with the real athletics (when he showed, in his third documentary, the interview with one "athlete" saying his teammate died for EPO, this was not an athlete but a farmer, the dead athlete never competed in Kenya in any Marathon and never was in top 50 in any local race, but Seppelt created a "virtual link" with the best Kenyan who never had any contact and any knowledge about this man).

But I can say something more. The IAAF antidoping department, under the guide of Kyle Barber, well knows that 95% of the accusations regarding Kenyan runners are fried air. They know the top athletes are clean, for the simple reason they, together with WADA, carried out MORE TESTS ON THE BEST THAN EVERY OTHER ATHLETE IN THE WORLD, and this in order to guarantee they are clean, for avoiding every further problem.

You can directly read the words of Sebastian Coe, when explains there are no problems with top Kenyan athletes because they are tested more frequently than any other top athlete in the World.

Among my athletes, for example, Jairus Birech was already tested, this year, 13 times for urine and 3 times with blood, Caleb Ndiku 12/3, Thomas Longosiwa 9/3 (and before Trials two tests in two following days, the first from IAAF and the second from WADA). I don't know how many times Asbel Kiprop, Rudisha, Eliud Kipchoge, Vivian Cheruiyot and other big were tested, but I can suppose about the same amount of my athletes.

So, I repeat again, one thing is not to be compliant with WADA rules about the local antidoping ( that is a fact of organization and availability of money, that Kenyan Government didn't set aside till when was forced by the threat

to be banned by Olympics), other thing to have suspicions about the top athletes, thinking they are not controlled : THIS IS A BIG LIE.

I don't know who is this English amateur who improved from 33' to 32' after a period in Lornah Training camp. Everything could happen, but I can't be surprise if an "amateur" with his normal training, going for some week in Iten and training in altitude with more volume, can improve of one minutes going back at sea level. If we have to think of doping every times some athlete can improve, really we are mentally sick, and don't know anything about the "basic effects" of training.

Renato Canova wrote:

I don't know who is this English amateur who improved from 33' to 32' after a period in Lornah Training camp. Everything could happen, but I can't be surprise if an "amateur" with his normal training, going for some week in Iten and training in altitude with more volume, can improve of one minutes going back at sea level. If we have to think of doping every times some athlete can improve, really we are mentally sick, and don't know anything about the "basic effects" of training.

TM stayed in a private rental in Iten not in Lornah's camp (not that that matters but just for clarity)

The Aviemore 10km is a downhill race and is not eligible for record purposes.

You see here that McDonald's PB is still 33minutes not 32.

Anyway - the performance of an amateur who went on a long holiday to Iten is not really the point!

For sure Seppelt has an agenda and it is not uncovering doping in Kenya. It is creating a story which he can then sell.

Using Freddie as his main man in Kenya to 'buy EPO' was a very shady move. Freddy is a man/boy of very low intellect and also well known by pretty much all Brits who train in Iten (He worships the British team and gravitates to all Mzungo's in Iten) so to find him is easy and then to manipulate him is even easier.

If you want to find doping then find it - but don't create it in order to then claim to have found it!

cleans wrote:

Clerk wrote:

Rekrunner, do you wait several days to see what the consensus says about an issue, and then take the opposite stand?

You are either trolling, or they biggest proponent of omertà and silencing whistleblowers.

And I don't see how Renato knows either, given that none of his athletes take EPO (so how can he know whether it 'works' or not - anecdotal evidence doesn't cut it, I'm afraid).

I think that Renato openly admits that his position is a hypothesis based on his personal experiences rather than a concrete fact??

Again, He also says that there is no evidence that it works under the conditions he describes (and never tested) and that his experiences would support that idea rather than that it is 100% certain that it cannot work!

Audley Trek wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

I don't know who is this English amateur who improved from 33' to 32' after a period in Lornah Training camp. Everything could happen, but I can't be surprise if an "amateur" with his normal training, going for some week in Iten and training in altitude with more volume, can improve of one minutes going back at sea level. If we have to think of doping every times some athlete can improve, really we are mentally sick, and don't know anything about the "basic effects" of training.

TM stayed in a private rental in Iten not in Lornah's camp (not that that matters but just for clarity)

The Aviemore 10km is a downhill race and is not eligible for record purposes.

http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=50580

You see here that McDonald's PB is still 33minutes not 32.

The Strathaven 10k is also downhill, doesn't stop people claiming pbs off the course. I avoid it.

Looks like Sepelt and The Times took advantage of Freddy by dangling a fake entry into the London Marathon and manipulated the narrative to suit their agenda. Terribly cruel and insensitive of them.

http://citizentv.co.ke/sports/ard-duped-me-to-implicate-kenya-in-doping-says-athlete-133194/#.V4PS2zyq06J.twitter

Renato, we all know how testing in Kenya happens, the athletes are pre warned of an upcoming test. You cannot deny this, numerous athletes have seen this and reported on it whilst training in Kenya, just see Reid Coolsaet's comments or Eilish McColgan, there is no testing without warning.

And the fact that Freddy still to this day can't understand why they didn't tell him they were journalists in the first place, and still can't understand why he isn't going to the London Marathon demonstrates why he was a particularly vulnerable target for them.

UK not OK wrote:

Renato, we all know how testing in Kenya happens, the athletes are pre warned of an upcoming test. You cannot deny this, numerous athletes have seen this and reported on it whilst training in Kenya, just see Reid Coolsaet's comments or Eilish McColgan, there is no testing without warning.

Those athletes commented on one particular test and the rest of the world has extrapolated that to cover all tests. No one knows the specifics of that test where the athletes were required to travel to Eldoret or whether that is indeed 'the norm'.

It does seem strange and I wonder what the explanation was/is if there is one at all?

For you to somehow know that "there is no testing without warning" because Elish McColgan spoke about 1 test with warning requires a large leap of faith.

Was the test a 'drug test' or was it to a blood profile to gain a baseline of Heamatocrit/RBC/etc etc? If so then is there anything you can do to change that in 10hours anyway? I'm not saying that that was the case - I have no idea, but I am considering if there is a logical explanation? If it was not a drug test at all but a blood test for other purposes? What do they look for in the Bio Passport? Can these things be changed overnight and/or masked?

Genuine questions - not claiming that is the reason...

The problem is exactly this : "We all know how testing in Kenya happens", because the reality is "You don't know anything" about antidoping tests.

The numerous athletes as Coolsaet or Eilish McColgan created a "metropolitan legend", without specifying anything.

1) About blood tests for the biological passport : YES, there is a "calling together" starting from the 8pm of the previous day, for going, ALL THE ATHLETES, in the house of Paul Scott (Canadian Citizen reponsible for IAAF antidoping in Kenya) at 5:30am of the following day. This because only in the house of Paul Scott there is the possibility to put blood samples under correct process of preservation, for a time no longer than 24 hours. After this period all samples must be sent in some accreditation lab (normally South African) all together, by flight. This organization obliges to have all the tests in the same day, so when there are blood tests normally we can find 15-30 athletes who are the best in the World meeting all together in Scott's house.

Somebody thinking athletes can do something for changing their test, during the time occurring between 8pm and 5am of the next day (9 hours) is completely mentally sick, and doesn't know anything about the normal life of the best kenyan athletes, 95% of them living in training camps.

In other words, about blood tests there are no possibilities of any manipulation.

2) About urine controlls : these tests are ALWAYS by surprise. Officials (IAAF or WADA is the same) arrive in some training camp at any time of the day, without respecting the individual "Windows" of the athletes (since almost each of them put as window the period between 8pm and 9pm, when are sure to be in the camp). Officials wait the come back of the athletes from their training in the morning, and start to take samples of urine. On the contrary of what often happens in Europe, in Kenya NEVER there was some athlete refuring to be controlled because legally not in their window (how they could have the right to do). Everybody accepts the control in any moment of the day, and the task force in charge knows very well this behavior.

So, please, quit to think what is not true, because one journalist full of "ego" goes to spread fake infos about a full Country, and because some European or American athlete, already with this idea in his mind, writes some stupidity in Facebook or Twitter, without having the interest to know the "REAL REALITY".

I want penalty more tough for athletes using doping, also if I think EPO doesn't work, but not because they can have some advantage, but because they are IDIOT with very weak mind. And I hope that all the idiots with very weak mind, in any role (athletes, coaches, officials, and Letsrun posters) finally can go far from Athletics, that is losing its values not only because of the cheaters on the field, but also for the cheaters who write stories of imagination, able, drop after drop, to create a wrong image of our sport.

Someone said that Rekrunner is Paula!

It would be great if you stopped saying the best women's marathoner had a weak mind and could not have benefited from EPO.

Also, do you think Aden's athletes could not benefit from EPO (I know they are not Kenyan - please don't take that out). Also, assuming the reports of activity are true, how likely do you think it is that prominent runners like the Dibaba family were not familiar with what was happening?

Renato Canova wrote:

I don't know who is this English amateur who improved from 33' to 32' after a period in Lornah Training camp. Everything could happen, but I can't be surprise if an "amateur" with his normal training, going for some week in Iten and training in altitude with more volume, can improve of one minutes going back at sea level. If we have to think of doping every times some athlete can improve, really we are mentally sick, and don't know anything about the "basic effects" of training.

Renato, he's the guy taking the video.

Did I say he was taking drugs? No. You're frying air.