Donavan Brazier Training: 20-30MPW?

I will jump in and say. It does not matter what he does. #1 he and the others you mention are not you #2 they use PEDs, so therefore even if you had the exact program you would have to modify or use. And even if you begin to use, what works for them may not work for you.

Olympic Truth wrote:

You really believe the direct quote. I saw Jeremy Warner eat at Mcdonalds the day before his 1st heat in Athens. My point being they never tell the truth, its easy for them to mislead/lie becasue they do it all the time with PEDs so training is just another lie. They all know the basic's and have a legit program, but the details are only known to a select few...

Yea, okay- believe only the reports you select.

That sounds like Isaiah Harris's progression. He went from 1:49 at NB Nationals his senior year to 1:45 at NCAA nationals this year (his freshman year).

Olympic Truth wrote:

#1. I am sure you do not know it for a fact. Lance Armstrong Marion Jones have actually never been caught- FOR A FACT. Yet we all know they took. Also, he went from a 152.76 in May/June to a 146 in 6 months and you think that's clean. If so, then you are naieve. And you will not convince me he is clean.

How can you possibly explain that? Really? Have you trained for several seasons and have first hand experience how unreal that is?

I have known him personally since he was a freshman in HS, know of his home life and family, and know the details of his training. I am not naive, you are simply wrong.

And he did not go from a 1:52 to a 1:46, you are literally just making shit up now. He ran 1:49.6 at New Balance Nationals for 3rd. A year later, at NCAAs this week, he ran 1:45.76. A year before he ran 1:49.6, he ran 1:51. A year before he ran 1:51, he ran 1:53. He never even broke 2:00 in an 800m until a week before he ran 1:53. In fact in a 3 week span, hitting lifetime PRs in every race, he went 2:01, 1:58, 1:53. So, I guess the doping started when he was a sophomore in high school?

The fact you are so convinced that not only Brazier but also Harris are doping (and, apparently, anyone who improves at a pace beyond the arbitrary limits a small-minded individual like you decides to set) does a pretty good job of showing that despite your claims, you in fact know very little about much of anything that you're talking about.

C'mon guys, the kid ran 1:48 with a 55/52 split last year. That is 1:46 fitness right there. He is finally learning how to run the event.

Stop speculating wrote:

Contradiction wrote:

So then why do all of the elite 800 guys do a lot of mileage in base phase and continue with the higher mileage in later phases, dropping it some, but not all the way into the 20s? Brazier is using a totally different approach, and it's working. Does anyone know more about his training than what was said in the article?

This is great. "What he's doing is different", followed by "does anybody know more about his training?". You don't even know the whole story of his training numbnuts.

Not all elite 800 runners run mileage. Who are you talking to?

ghu wrote:

I think he'd be a candidate for Igloi training.

The Igloi runners were not doing low mileage. They would be doing stuff like one hour on the track in the morning and one in the evening every other day.

famous rapper wrote:

No aerobic mileage is needed for an 800m specialist.

I thought the 800m was 50% aerobic, 50% anaerobic?

Why do you say that?

You sound like Marion Jones friends. And yes anyone that drops 3 seconds in a year is doping The fact that you despute that shows a naive and uneducated person when it comes to track and I question that you have ever trained at a high level for a season. And please read what I wrote. Its the drop at the national/world level to the elite/best US in the country is what I am looking at. his 201 to 153 is natural but its the 148 to 143 is clearly not natural. And I have known sophomoress that use.. Jamaica ring a bell.

He ran 1:52.74 in June 2015 his Sr. year and then a 146 in Jan 2016. I know he ran faster, later, but the fact of 152 to 146 in 6 months still stands.

Just because you know him, doesn't really mean he doesn't take. I could line up the people that though Armstrong, Jones, Mcquire etc. etc etc. were clean. Tim Montg. I mean the list is sooooo long of nice people that use in order to improve. Asafa, Blake, Carl Lewis, Torrie Edwards,

George II wrote:

The real question is how many times has he been drug tested?

Haha track and field is a joke anymore. This combined with Clayton Murphy running 3:36 while shutting it down and still running a 55 last lap is ridiculous. The top athletes from high school to pros are dirty but they will never test positive, it would look too bad for the sport. Too many corrupt officials and athletes.

Finally!! A voice of reason. I thought I was all alone in the truth zone.

This. Train slow, run slow. End of the day what's going to help more practicing running 800m pace or jogging 8-9 miles? He's a 400/800 guy not a 5K/10K guy.

Metric Miler wrote:

I broke 1:50 never running more than 30mpw. You're assessment of 60-80mpw is just your opinion. Brazier hasn't revolutionised anything with his training. This is how 400/800 and 800m specialist train.

The notion of 'special endurance' has been laughed at around here before, but it works. Jogging about for x miles a week doesn't directly help the endurance needed in an 800m in the same way that running hard 700m reps do.

Osagie ran 1:43 something on 20mpw, definitely not new ground, just people with different vo2 maxes and fast-slow twitch muscle fibre ratios

There is no need to be surprised that some 800 metres athletes have success on low mileage. Mal Whitfield raced 1:47.9 over 60 years ago on dirt, wearing heavy leather spikes. Whitfield was a low mileage guy. If more runners on Letsrun were to read Peter Coe & David Martin PhD book: Better Training for Distance Runners, low mileage 800 metres men will no longer be a surprise.

At KU decades ago the best 800m runners were 400m and 600 yard runners who ran at most 20 mpw if that. The best was a low 46 and 1:09 runner. The US could compete with Kenya as world best at 800m if we drop the mileage focus and encourage our best young 400m runners to also run the 800m.

Olympic Truth wrote:

He ran 1:52.74 in June 2015 his Sr. year and then a 146 in Jan 2016. I know he ran faster, later, but the fact of 152 to 146 in 6 months still stands.

This how it's obvious you know you're full of crap but desperate to save face. His 1:52 was 6/13 and was NOT a PR, and his 1:49 was only one week later (and, of course, he ran 1:51 the year before), but you're acting like the 1:49 was much later to play into the narrative you're trying to create to lend credence to your objectively incorrect assertion. You also purposefully forget to mention he had never run indoor track until his first season at PSU, which is a significantly larger factor than you would obviously like to admit. No one denies that at the highest levels cheating is rife within t&f, I'm sorry your own inadequacy and inability to coach or become a high level athlete without PEDs has made you into such a sad, ignorant creature.

I had been warned that letsrun's main board was largely full of "the worst people in track and field" but I grossly underestimated how true that warning was. I'm not sure that many of you guys realize the reason the letsrun message board is "World Famous" is not dissimilar from the reason a place like stormfront is famous.

DoritosLocosTacos wrote:

This. Train slow, run slow. End of the day what's going to help more practicing running 800m pace or jogging 8-9 miles? He's a 400/800 guy not a 5K/10K guy.[quote]Metric Miler wrote:

No one says train slow. They're saying build aerobic capacity at least to some extent. If aerobic capacity wasn't needed for the 800m, then MJ >> Rushida in their primes at 800m.

Thing is, Brazier ran XC (15:25 5M) & 40 mpw last year- Strength stays with a runner for a while. What will happen next year, assuming his coach's 20-30 mpw is correct & his off-season base mileage isn't much better?? The 5K endurance won't last forever.

Contradiction wrote:

Are you contrasting Brazier and Snell? Cause their training is totally different so I could definitely see a difference there. I just don't get when you talk about even splitting for Snell and contrasting with Brazier who positive splits, but like you said the least out of everyone. So they are similar in that type of way. But of course, Brazier isn't doing Snell type training.

Ya. I'm just saying Brazier is like no one we've ever seen, but it doesn't mean people are going to reach new prs if they train like him. Like others have said the best 800 runners often have a 400 background. I think people are so fit that the 800 is a sprint not middle distance these days.

calculo wrote:

Contradiction wrote:It has been said that Brazier only runs 20-30MPW with one aerobic run of 30 min per week. He didn't do cross country either. Does anyone know if he had a higher mileage base, because this mileage seems pretty low, and it's working very well. This type of training contradicts much of the 800 training mentioned on this site, especially from the "Sub 1:50 800m Training" thread. How does Brazier run so fast on this training? Is this type of training the best for 800m? Does anyone have any more specific info on it?

el caballo

it was claimed in '76 ran only 15mpw before running virtually solo 1'43.50-gold after rounds

with smooth pacing to bell off ideal splits in 1-off he was certainly capable of

~ 1'42-mid/high

this Kid at 19y off likely crap mileage is worth

~ 1'42-low

Caballo also ran a 1:12 600 time trial in practice lesding up to WR