Alvin Lee and 10 Years After wrote:
uhh, "this Troop guy" is a former Olympic runner and it is my understanding his running group is a handful of elite runners. Is there Congressional or state legislation somewhere that a user of public property must pay a fee if they get paid for what they do?
That doesn't give him the right to control who uses the track and who doesn't.
Let's be clear about one thing, Boulder might still call itself a running mecca, but primarily, it is a place for rich people to brood around in Tesla's while they sip macchiatos and lookup at the flatirons that the previous residents used to play in.
The mountains, thin air, public tracks...they are all commodities now. A person used to find the track and run on it because they cared about getting faster, now it's all part of a 'training plan' that an overpaid 'coach' prints out and gives these a**holes so they feel like what they think a runner is supposed to feel like.
Basically, the people who moved to Boulder in the past 10 years are the people who were too busy to 'live a little' when they were younger, but now are rich and 'love' the mountains, so they need million dollars homes near them. They don't 'love' anything other than being rich enough to afford to bulldoze a 250k house, displacing a family that might actually contribute the community, and build a mcmansion for everyone to look at.
Boulder is terrible and I'd be quite happy with a forest fire or flood taking out the town, and the rich a**holes who live there.
Rant over.
U are a mad bro, bro
TheEndOfGreatBoulder wrote:
Boulder is terrible and I'd be quite happy with a forest fire or flood taking out the town, and the rich a**holes who live there.
Take it easy, man. Don't say things like this. You'll feel terrible if it happens.
All the people who say that elite runners have no more of a right to use a track than joggers.
You're right of course.
But they should have more right. These plodders shouldn't be anywhere near a track.
I presuming most who are supporting the joe jogger rights are 'glacial pace' athletes themselves. Get off the track, shuffling around a track doesn't make you any fitter than doing the same on trail or a road.
Can I just ask a quick question?
If you live in Boulder, why do you want to run around a track? I mean, isn't Boulder full of beautiful trails and fast dirt roads that are perfect for training? Isn't that the draw of Boulder? It certainly can't be the local HS track facility.
I understand elite runners doing intervals on a track to prepare for a track race, but why are running clubs meeting and running on a track?
Big Thompson and Poudre wrote:
Get yer facts wrote:You are using flawed logic. It doesn't matter if there are other libraries in town. It's irrelevant. The issue is the use of public school facilities by the public which goes outside the scope of what their intended use. The track's main use is for school kids. A public library is by definition available to all the public, a school track isn't a "public" track.
A pro runner has no more rights to a public track than a hobby jogger. they don't. Now a town might decide to give them more rights based on either a payment, or wanting to look like they support pro athletes or if the athlete is also a HS/Middles school coach.
CU is a public institution and they limit the public use of the track. No one seems to have a problem with that.
BVSD charges for use of nearly all their facilities (even though there are other facilities for the public) things like fields, parking lots, rooms.
The Rate for stadium is Commercial Rate - $123.00/hr . The runners had been getting a free ride. Time to pay up.
You seem to know it all. Congratulations. What stadium are you talking about? Boulder, or another community? What's your source.
The situation is not unlike tennis courts back in the pre running boom era. Now most tennis courts are private, or require a fee.
Agree with one thing, the clubs should probably pay a user fee in a place like Boulder where demand will be very high. In fact there should be a registration system and per capita fee. So if the elite club with 6 or 7 athletes would pay something like $5 each for an hour (so $30-$35), and the massive club with 80 runners would pay at the same rate (but $400). Limit or do not allow use during school hours, or when teams are using the tracks.
Rules of etiquette would apply so that slow joggers take the outside lanes, faster runners get the inside, while doing reps, but step to the outside lanes when doing the 'interval' (a term that no one understands anymore!).
Rates were for BVSD....which is why I said "BVSD charges...." Then list their rate.
Alvin Lee and 10 Years After wrote:
serious questions wrote:Is this Troop guy paid by these runners to be their coach? If so, he needs to pay to use the track or build his own on his own property. These for-profit running and fitness groups are proliferating like the plague. Everyone who is halfway fit wants people to pay them and just use public property for their own profits. Residents getting sick of it. Cities cracking down on it. Here's a recent article about the problem in Santa Monica, CA:
http://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_site/the_lookout/news/News-2016/April-2016/04_15_2016_New_Rules_Could_Come_for_Fitness_Groups_in_Santa_Monica.htmluhh, "this Troop guy" is a former Olympic runner and it is my understanding his running group is a handful of elite runners. Is there Congressional or state legislation somewhere that a user of public property must pay a fee if they get paid for what they do?
Use of a high school track is usually at the discretion of the school or school district, not an internet troll. But by all means explain yourself further.
School districts nationwide don't allow non-sanctioned use of school facilities due to liability and insurance issues. Thanks lawyers.
Also, most high schools (even in the suburbs) are locked down tighter than Fort Knox because all school shootings are conducted by outsiders.....NOT!
Not From Boulder wrote:
Can I just ask a quick question?
If you live in Boulder, why do you want to run around a track? I mean, isn't Boulder full of beautiful trails and fast dirt roads that are perfect for training? Isn't that the draw of Boulder? It certainly can't be the local HS track facility.
I understand elite runners doing intervals on a track to prepare for a track race, but why are running clubs meeting and running on a track?
So the hobby jogger with money can say he kicked butt in a workout last night when he's standing around the water cooler.
The guy was selling a brand in Oregon, and he's selling a lifestyle in Bolder.
Looks like Boulder schools is looking to add synthetic tracks at all it Middle Schools in the district.
It's a 21st century 1st world issue. Boulder did not have a modern all weather track until the mid-1980s, and through that decade there were only a few such facilities in the entire state. Suck it up and adapt, meanwhile ban the excessively large hobby jogger groups. Not altogether but from a mass takeover of the available tracks.
I grew up in the largest school district in the Denver area in the late 80s. We had a cinder track at the high school and ONE, yes one, synthetic track for 10+ high schools.
One world wrote:
It's a 21st century 1st world issue. Boulder did not have a modern all weather track until the mid-1980s, and through that decade there were only a few such facilities in the entire state. Suck it up and adapt, meanwhile ban the excessively large hobby jogger groups. Not altogether but from a mass takeover of the available tracks.
This particular post was great with one exception. This question and the answer given.
"People saying pros with contracts should pay for use, how many pros do you think actually make a salary from running?"
The answer is 100%. How much is a different story. If you run and do not make money from it you are not a pro. Period Paragraph.
Get yer facts wrote:
kvothe wrote:There are other libraries for the public. Do we prohibit school children from visiting them because they have libraries at school? No, that'd be absurd. Yet there are no public tracks, well there might be a handful somewhere, but not boulder, and not any town USA. Where is a runner to work out? Despite letting school children, teachers, even well to do principals who could get into the school library even on saturday if they wanted, use the public library, we don't turn around and let the public use school tracks. You hit the nail on the head, but got everything backwards.
You are using flawed logic. It doesn't matter if there are other libraries in town. It's irrelevant. The issue is the use of public school facilities by the public which goes outside the scope of what their intended use. The track's main use is for school kids. A public library is by definition available to all the public, a school track isn't a "public" track.
A pro runner has no more rights to a public track than a hobby jogger. they don't. Now a town might decide to give them more rights based on either a payment, or wanting to look like they support pro athletes or if the athlete is also a HS/Middles school coach.
CU is a public institution and they limit the public use of the track. No one seems to have a problem with that.
BVSD charges for use of nearly all their facilities (even though there are other facilities for the public) things like fields, parking lots, rooms.
The Rate for stadium is Commercial Rate - $123.00/hr . The runners had been getting a free ride. Time to pay up.
I don't have a problem with limited, but some, public access hours for a track at a public institution. What I have an issue is, if a public, tax dollar paid for track, is run like a private business, only open to specific people all the time. I'd rather not pay for schools at all if I'm not also paying for track access through my taxes. The communities should have truly public tracks or allow access at school tracks.
an honest opinion here wrote:
I grew up in the largest school district in the Denver area in the late 80s. We had a cinder track at the high school and ONE, yes one, synthetic track for 10+ high schools.
One world wrote:It's a 21st century 1st world issue. Boulder did not have a modern all weather track until the mid-1980s, and through that decade there were only a few such facilities in the entire state. Suck it up and adapt, meanwhile ban the excessively large hobby jogger groups. Not altogether but from a mass takeover of the available tracks.
Thanks for the corroborating recall. Cherry Creek, the richest school in the state, had a nice all weather track. Other than that it was cinders or asphalt.
trollism wrote:
All the people who say that elite runners have no more of a right to use a track than joggers.
You're right of course.
But they should have more right. These plodders shouldn't be anywhere near a track.
I presuming most who are supporting the joe jogger rights are 'glacial pace' athletes themselves. Get off the track, shuffling around a track doesn't make you any fitter than doing the same on trail or a road.
How fast do you have to be to run on a track in Boulder? I'm thinking of moving there and wonder if I make the cut with my 32:45 10k.
Sesamoiditis wrote:
trollism wrote:All the people who say that elite runners have no more of a right to use a track than joggers.
You're right of course.
But they should have more right. These plodders shouldn't be anywhere near a track.
I presuming most who are supporting the joe jogger rights are 'glacial pace' athletes themselves. Get off the track, shuffling around a track doesn't make you any fitter than doing the same on trail or a road.
How fast do you have to be to run on a track in Boulder? I'm thinking of moving there and wonder if I make the cut with my 32:45 10k.
More right than a 30 min 5k plodder and less right than a 29 min 10k guy.
OK so we'll establish strict hours based on the criteria of sea-level PRs run in the past 18 months from date of use. Verification must be submitted to the Bolder Boulder headquarters: The host high school will enjoy track privileges from 8-4 M-F
*10K stratification list and practice times:
Sub-29 (Male) & sub-34 (Female) 4-6 p.m. M-F
Sub-32:30 (Male) & sub-38:30 (Female) 6-8 p.m. M-F
Sub-36 (Male) & sub 42:30 (Female) 8-10 p.m. M-F
Sub-40 (Male) & sub-48 (Female) 6-8 a.m. M-F
Sub-45 (Male & Sub-55 (Female) 4-6 a.m. M-F
*All groups, regardless of ability, must defer to Olympians who've achieved the "B" standard.
*Anyone failing to achieve these times can use the track between midnight and 3 a.m..
Weekends can be a free-for-all. Bring your dogs and iPods.
an honest opinion here wrote:
I grew up in the largest school district in the Denver area in the late 80s. We had a cinder track at the high school and ONE, yes one, synthetic track for 10+ high schools.
One world wrote:It's a 21st century 1st world issue. Boulder did not have a modern all weather track until the mid-1980s, and through that decade there were only a few such facilities in the entire state. Suck it up and adapt, meanwhile ban the excessively large hobby jogger groups. Not altogether but from a mass takeover of the available tracks.
I fail to see your point here. Are you arguing that Lee has no reason to be upset, simply because you grew up in an era with fewer synthetic tracks? That he is complaining about nothing?
I went to high school in the 90s. Our track was unmarked and cinder as well. We didn't get a rubber track until '99. Once that happened, runners of all talent levels, shapes and sizes wanted to use that track before and after work. For the most part this worked well, as the majority of training groups in the area taught their athletes basic track etiquette. Lane one was cleared for faster traffic, warming up and cooling down was done off the track or in the outer lanes. As long as everyone observed this basic system, you could have several different running groups all out there getting a great workout in.
This has changed recently. With the growth of the city I live in, there has been an explosion of training groups and bootcamps. On the one hand, I am glad to see that many fitness businesses are getting people out there running. I think that's great. On the other hand, there are a lot of training group leaders in town that are NOT teaching their clients how to share the track.
Having a group as small as 5-10 people that do not understand the basic system that we all are referring to as "track etiquette", can ruin a planned workout. Whether this situation is created on a rubber or cinder track is irrelevant. If anything, I would prefer a lightly used cinder track to get my workouts in, over a track where I can't run at anything faster than easy pace in lanes 1-6. Again, this is a problem, and one created by the trainers who are unable to teach their clients proper systems that allow us to share the track.
I get schools and institutions wanting to close their track during school hours due to liability and safety concerns. This appears to be a school though that was willing to open its gates during school hours to support the running community at-large. But it got abused by a way to large group of out-of-shape joggers feeding on the track lanes like locusts. It wasn't the one hobby jogger in lane 1 that was the issue, it was the one hobby jogger in lane 1 with 90 of his inexperienced groupies in lanes 1-8 wrapping around the track like a snake that were the problem, while their coaches looked on with sheepish grins and cliche motivational cheers.
Recreational jogging clubs and boot camps as referenced above have a place, as annoying as they can be. But when they utilize public parks and school facilities to operate their businesses without permits, reservations, and show complete disregard for the rest of the community also trying to utilize those spaces, they shouldn't be surprised when they are met with backlash. Not surprising these "coaches", like @rmvermillion, aren't willing to accept accountability.