I would like a color version. thanks
I would like a color version. thanks
fascinating stuff, please e-mail the color-coded chart if you could.
Today I am ashamed to be a part of the class of '93. But at least I was injured that season.
j5
Interesting stuff. Please email me the color coded one too. thanks.
Malmo -- Thanks for the great stats. I also loved your HS picture; I graduated HS in '81 (when everything started to get slow, apparently) out in the boondocks, and our pics looked the same (including the afros).
One thing about the HS stats from the 60s: if you remove Lindgren and Ryun (who account for a host of the sub-4:10s and sub-9:00 times), then the 60s look a little weaker. I read this two ways:
1. The seventies, in comparison, were even stronger/deeper.
2. Ryun/Lindren's accomplishments as pioneers are that much more dramatic (I believe that when Ryun arrived the HS 4:10 barrier had only just been broken a couple years back, I believe by Archie San Romani, also of Kansas -- so going from where 4:10 was a barrier to running 3:55 is just jaw dropping; ditto for Lindgen's 8:40 indoors).
I seem to recall a lot of good HS guys running 75 miles a week in the 70's and resigned to being so-so runners because all they could run was 4:18. It was a good decade for mileage and depth.
Spider wrote:
(1)One thing about the HS stats from the 60s: if you remove Lindgren and Ryun (who account for a host of the sub-4:10s and sub-9:00 times), then the 60s look a little weaker. I read this two ways:
(2)I seem to recall a lot of good HS guys running 75 miles a week in the 70's and resigned to being so-so runners because all they could run was 4:18. It was a good decade for mileage and depth.
(1) The lists are for PERFORMERS, not PERMORMANCES.
(2) I remember an article about Virgin in the day which said (paraphrased), "Virgin, who runs only 80-85 miles a week, considered low by today's standards...blah blah"
"Low by today's standards." That says it all.
ancient roadrunner wrote: I stand corrected. Virgin ran a 8:40.9 that year.
Let's put this in perspective. I posted this on another board, but it fits well here:
In Craig Virgin's senior year in high school, he posted five times at two miles that BY THEMSELVES are equal to or better than the seasonal PR's of Rupp, Kiptoo, McDougal, Landry and Bumbalough COMBINED! And in many cases, he did it doubling back and putting up mile times that would make, or be near, the current top-10 list in the mile.
The current top five performers at two miles from Track and Field News (including 3,000 and 3200 conversions):
8:42.37+ ............ Galen Rupp (Central Catholic, Portland, Or)
8:45.44 ............ Shadrack Kiptoo' (La Cueva, Albuquerque, NM)
8:47.41+ ................ Josh McDougal (Home Schooled, Peru, NY)
8:48.25 .. Christopher Landry (Jefferson Science, Alexandria, Va)
8:49.87 ... *Andrew Bumbalough (Brentwood Academy, Brentwood, Tn)
Craig Virgin's Senior Year Top Five, Including Date and Other Info:
8:40.9...............6/09 (IPI; temps in 90's; HS record)
8:42.6...............5/26 (doubled back in 4:12.2; State finals)
8:46.6...............5/05 (doubled back in 4:11.8 relay)
8:48.6...............5/21 (doubled back in 4:08.5 Meet of Champions)
8:49.85..............7/14 (converted from 8:10.2 3000m)
In the one month from May 5 to June 9, he ran 8:40, 8:42, 8:46 and 8:48, three of those times doubling.
Great stats! Thanks for the info!
Virgin's entire season. Holy shit!
4/07 8:50.4 2 mile & 4:17 relay leg
4/24 8:55.6 & 4:16.6 St Clair County meet
4/28 8:59.0 Granite City Invite
5/02 9:24.2 O'Falon Relays
5/03 4:27.9 & 2:02.1 Conference meet
5/05 8:46.6 & 4:11.8 relay Orphan Relays
5/15 8:54.0 Cahokia Invite
5/18 8:53.6 & 4:10.9 District
5/21 8:48.6 & 4:08.5 Meet of Champions
5/25 4:10.0 State meet heat
5/26 8:42.6 & 4:12.2 State finals
6/01 4:05.5 Top 10 meet
6/09 8:40.9 Intl Prep Invite - HS 2 mile record
6/23 13:36.8 3 mile at Ntl Jr AAU
7/04 4:06.1 Freedom Mile (5th)
7/14 8:10.2 3000 for 3rd vs West German Jrs
7/20 8:16.0 3000 win vs Poland Jrs
7/28 13:58.2 5000 win vs USSR Jrs
Please send the color version. Thanks, George.
Please send the color formatted version. Thanks for the thought provoking project.
he also ran 8;45 indoors
Malmo , If you will send Id appreciate 26point2@comcast.net
Okay, to ask a naive but obvious question: if times stagnated in the late 80s and then became downright slow in the early 90s through late 90s, what was happening then? Was there some wholesale trend in training the both swept the country and was ineffectual? Although some folks (Ryun) may be one-of-a-kind, I find it hard to believe that talent across the board was much different. And it seems unusual to think that everyone in every corner of the country went from traing right to training wrong. And I can't believe folks were drinking less beer in the 70's ( . . . I may not be fast, but I was an eyewitness to the 70's).
Spider wrote:
Okay, to ask a naive but obvious question: if times stagnated in the late 80s and then became downright slow in the early 90s through late 90s, what was happening then? Was there some wholesale trend in training the both swept the country and was ineffectual?
Yes it is naive questions. Those of us who have been around watched this happen. Runners ran less. "Less is more" become en vogue. 80 miles a week become the threshold for what would be defined as "high mileage."
malmo wrote:
1980: The first cracks begin to show. Depth in the 2 mile falls off. In 1982 depth in the mile fails, starting a 17 year downward trend.
1988: Trend accelerates.
Didn't video games start becoming popular around this time?
Old Story wrote:"Less is more" become en vogue. 80 miles a week become the threshold for what would be defined as "high mileage."
Or even a lot less. I remember an article in a local paper around that time about a kid that was beginning to run relatively well. His coach gushed about what a great work ethic the kid had, how much he ran, and how this kid "put in more mileage than any other kid he'd ever had."
Turns out that was all of 50 miles a week.
I threw the paper down in disgust and couldn't finish the article.
Zat0pek wrote:Or even a lot less. I remember an article in a local paper around that time about a kid that was beginning to run relatively well. His coach gushed about what a great work ethic the kid had, how much he ran, and how this kid "put in more mileage than any other kid he'd ever had."
Turns out that was all of 50 miles a week.
I threw the paper down in disgust and couldn't finish the article.
that would explain a lot
I just wanted to be the 100th poster on this great thread.
[quote]Zat0pek wrote:
. . . this kid "put in more mileage than any other kid he'd ever had."
Turns out that was all of 50 miles a week.
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Heck, I ran 60 miles last week (and I'm an old, slow nothing).
I wonder if this goes back to the stories about Sebastian Coe claiming to only do 30 miles a week, but emphasizing quality.