McFarland USA, currently at 89% on Rotten Tomatoes

Anyone know what times they ran?

results:

http://www.athletic.net/CrossCountry/Results/Meet.aspx?Meet=90000

I think a runner or two had off day that day.

Went to see the movie this evening. As I expected, I enjoyed it, though suspending belief about running physiques (and foot strikes!) was required.Still, I think for young runners, it will be inspirational. Looking forward to showing it to the junior high squad when the season rolls around.The high school team went en masse on Friday night but I was busy with grandkids and couldn't go. Just as well, since half the girls on the team were beta readers for my book. The critics have it at a 78% rating but the audience has it at 91%. When in doubt, go with the audience vote.

El Jefe wrote:

We took the team to see the movie last night and for irony hosted a carne asada party.

Yes, cheesy movie but what do you expect from Disney? The kids enjoyed it and so did I.

I'm Latino so I can relate with all the Mexican stereotypes; I find them funny actually because there is so much truth to them.

Si se puede!

+1

I took my daughters to see the movie on opening night. All of us liked it. I think the movie conveyed its message, as both of my little girls understood the theme/perspective.

I, too, thought the actors to be rather stout for xc runners, but this is a more or less minor criticism. The acting was good, and the film gives us a nice dose of social commentary via the little-known vehicle of xc running. There are so many films about the major sports. I am glad to have seen a decent film about distance running.

How could we not root for coach White and those tough young men?

Blanco's Amigo wrote:

El Jefe wrote:

Now for some more useful stuff. Does anyone know how Coach White trained these kids to so much success? Methods, philosophy, training loads?

Easy, he told them if they ever wanted to leave that place they had to run faster.

Actually, they ran high mileage for back then, 50-60 a week. Plus they ran 800m repeat hills often. But the kids were doing another 4-6 hours of manual labor a day, kind of a cross training.

50-60 miles was NOT high mileage back in the 80's. Most top teams ran 80-100 miles a week. It wasn't until the 90's when high school runners started running low mileage of 50-60 miles a week. But to this team it was high mileage if you add in the manual labor and other stuff they did.

My wife and I went to see it yesterday. There were three different girls high school teams in the audience, a positive potentially unintended outcome of the film.

I have not seen the photos of the real team, but with this being California I can't imagine the 5th runner on the state championship team was anything but thin.

I think the film was intended to show tolerance and acceptance of immigration and seeing people for who they are instead of a blanket perception.

Good Disney-type movie.

I just searched this topic wanting to know more about the movie. I've known one of White's daughters for almost 30-years but just found out about it yesterday. Small world!

I do feel sheepish for being "the runner" in my clan but never knowing anything about the CA town XC program or her dad.

I thought that the movie showed the top runner from McFarland winning the state title but the results appear to show he was 7th.

Pretty good find:

https://johnhartephoto.wordpress.com/2015/02/11/a-glimpse-at-the-real-mcfarland-usa-kids-and-coach-jim-white/

Actual pictures of the 1987 team at meets.

Blanco's Amigo wrote:

El Jefe wrote:

Now for some more useful stuff. Does anyone know how Coach White trained these kids to so much success? Methods, philosophy, training loads?

Easy, he told them if they ever wanted to leave that place they had to run faster.

Actually, they ran high mileage for back then, 50-60 a week. Plus they ran 800m repeat hills often. But the kids were doing another 4-6 hours of manual labor a day, kind of a cross training.

I coach in a small Central Valley town about 3 hours north of McFarland. We are not as poor (a little over 50% of our kids qualify for free lunch and breakfast. I'm sure the percentage is much higher in McFarland) and have had far fewer tragedies, but a lot of the movie still rang true. I've had a chance to meet Coach White a couple of times. The first time was during the 2003 season, White's last and the inspiration for this article

My team was pretty good that year. We thought we might get on the podium at the state meet (bombed and finished 10th). When I met Coach White at the Clovis Invitational, both of our teams were out warming up and we talked for a little bit. He was really friendly. Maybe he knew Hughson was a small agricultural community like McFarland and felt some kinship. Maybe he was just a friendly guy. He had a small dog in a big fight mentality. Pointing out some of the competition that we'd be running against: bigger, taller, more mature looking kids from larger schools. Then said something about our kids just having big hearts and big lungs. We were 6th that day and I think his team was maybe 3rd.

I met him a few more times over the years. The most recent time was just after the Division 4 race at the 2015 state meet. My kids had been watching the trailer for McFarland (which was still a couple of months away from release). My #1 boy (from a poor, Mexican family) was totally jacked to see the movie. He was the only one of my runners who had made state that year. My boys team had made the trip to watch our #1 guy race. They were out on their cool down. My wife and son were 50 yards away tossing a frisbee and I was doing my normal, "the season's over, I'm exhausted" zombie walk. I saw coach White walking toward me and said hello. He came right over and struck up a conversation.

That year, McFarland had also had only 1 boy qualify for the state meet (the first time in the history of the CA state meet without a McFarland team) and White, long retired, was there supporting the one boy who had qualified as an individual. McFarland had been "promoted" by their section from Division 4 to Division 1 because of their success at the section level throughout the years (every time you win 3 section titles in a row, you get bumped up a division). Coach White was pretty upset that his boys had to race against kids from schools 3-4 times their size in order to reach the state meet. McFarland had actually hired lawyers to try and get moved back down to their proper division. (The rule was put in place because there are a handfull of small, private schools who "give scholarships" to kids in one sport (basketball, for example) and end up creating regional all star teams and dominating the lower divisions, McFarland does not fall into that category, though). After complaining for a while how they'd been lumped in with the private schools for "promotion", White turned and looked at me and said, "they could have made it anyway" (They'd been 4th in their section and the top 3 qualified for state). "they just didn't run enough". I asked him, "how much do you think they should be running?". He paused, cool and laconic like a later day Clint Eastwood, squinted into the distance, then turned to me and said, "about 80".

That is the extent of my knowledge of the training of the McFarland boys team.

My wife and son eventually came over and started talking to him as well. She asked, "are you the guy that they made that movie about"? We then proceeded to talk about the movie and what was "Hollywood" and what was real. When my team came back from the cool down, my #1 boy was speechless to actually meet the Coach White. Coach was very interested in my boy's training and experience and was very encouraging to him to continue his running and to have a great track season.

A couple of things I've gleaned over the years about what is true and what is false from the movie.

Patently false:

Thomas Valles won the individual title in 1987.

Coach White came to McFarland in 1987 after being fired from a teaching gig in Idaho.

Coach White started the team in 1987 (he started it in 1980).

The Diaz parents discouraged their kids from running

Somewhat true:

Thomas Valles was sitting on that bridge in the middle of the night. He claims he wasn't thinking about jumping.

There are some hilly courses that we run (Mt. SAC), but nothing like depicted in the movie. The Central Section qualifying course is the same as the state meet course, as the state meet is run in Fresno, which is in the Central Section of CIF.

True enough:

McFarland won the D3 state title in 1987

Many poor kids in the valley (white or brown) often times have not left their own towns and have never seen places like the ocean or Yosemite National Park (despite it being a 2-3 hour drive to those places).

Coach White did help out some of the families during harvest time.

McFarland did go on to win 9 titles in 14 years.

It's hot as hell in the south end of the valley during the summers and fall.

Coincidentally, McFarland has ALWAYS been poor. Like pockets around where I live, before the town was predominantly brown, it was predominantly Okie. If you don't know that term, read the Grapes of Wrath. As the poor white Okies got a little wealth in their families, they moved out of McFarland and were replaced by poor brown Mexicans.

Wow --- excellent write up. Thanks very much.

I found this list of all CIF results from 1987 on. Guess who won the Division I title that year? Deena Drossin, now Kastor!!! Thomas Yalles did place 7th, in Division III, for McFarland.

Now I know nothing about high school meets (I was not born in the USA).

Can someone explain to me how this work?

1) Does the CIF contain ALL of California, or only the central park of the state? It looks as if most of these high schools are fairly local, but I must be wrong. The CIF cross country championship is also located in Fresno, CA which is quite close to McFarland and the central part of the state. Hence my confusion --- do high schools in San Diego and San Francisco also participate in that exact championship?

2) Why are there Divisions? I understand the concerns about school size --- is this all? To ensure fairness, e.g. Division III is mostly smaller schools? (I see now there are five divsions)

3) Either a team or an individual qualify, or both, is that right? How do you qualify?

4) How hard is it to qualify? I am an old runner (twice the high school age) and can run 17:30 or so on road 5k. Where would that put me out of curiosity? I may run low 17:00 or just under on a track.

5) How hard is it to win? I see the winners over the years and it's NO JOKE: Deena Kastor (1987 DI), Ryan Hall (2000 DIV --- did he go to a small HS?), Sara Bei now Hall (2000 as well, DII), Terrence Mahon, Tim Nelson, Jordan Hasay (Division V???).

Bonus question: if you are good enough to win your Division but don't continue like the ones above, does it mean you're pretty much an incredible talent who just didn't want to run full time, but could have? The times are pretty consistent over the years, so I'd think anyone in top 5-7 could have the talent to become a pro runner, or at least a very advanced (sub elite) runner?

http://w3.lasallehs.org/sports/xc/images/2010Season/StateMeet/all-timeCalxcList.pdf

As you can see, I am very interested in understanding more what I am looking at. Not from around here, so that's quite foreign to me!

1. CIF includes all of California. The CIF is divided into 10 "sections" ranging in size from 6 schools (Oakland Section) to over 600 schools (southern section). It is a little confusing when you read posts online, because people from different sections refer to their section championship by different names. In the southern section, if someone says "I'm running CIF this weekend" they mean they are running in their section championship, rather than state as it would seem. I grew up in the Central Coast Section. We said, "I'm running CCS this weekend". Currently I coach in the Sac-Joaquin Section. People here just say, "I'm running sections this weekend". McFarland is in the Central Section Without looking it up, I believe there are somewhere around 100 schools. The north end of that section is around Chowchilla and the South end is right up against the Grapevine (sorry for the CA geography references). McFarland is pretty close to the center of that area.

2. Divisions exist for competitiveness in the team competitions. This ends up splitting the top individual talents among all of the divisions. It is pretty common for the top individual runner on the day to be from the smaller divisions. Division 1 are the largest schools and D5 are the smallest. There is no statewide criterion for school assignment to divisions except for schools smaller than 600 kids enrolled in grades 9-12 are in D5. Otherwise, the divisions are set by the sections as they see fit in order to create competitive equity within each section. This makes it kind of rough on some schools when we advance to state. For example, my school has around 700 kids. We've been in Division 4 for my entire time coaching. It used to be that there was a cap of (I believe 1,050) student enrollment for D4 teams. The years that we advanced to state, we could be pretty competitive. Recently, the southern section has been letting teams from schools of almost 1,500 students into Division 4. Predictably, Division 4 has gotten much tougher over the last 3 years.

3. Each section gets to send a specified number of teams per division, based on section size and the historical performances of that section's teams at the state meet (it is based on the # of teams placing in the top 10 for the previous 4 years). For instance. Our section has a baseline of 2 guaranteed berths to the state meet per division based on it's size. In some of the divisions, our section teams have done very well at the state meet, earning 1 or 2 extra berths to state for our division. So, the number of teams allowed to advance to state from each section changes every year. To further complicate matters, some sections "reward" teams success by promoting them to higher divisions. This is how McFarland ended up in Division 1. Individuals not on good teams can also qualify for the state meet. For instance, in our division of our section, the top 2 finishers at the section championship were from teams that were very weak this year. Those 2 girls still advanced to the state meet, where our section champion finished 4th. The number of individuals that advance from each section is 5.

Note: Not all sections have teams in all divisions. For example, the Oakland City Section only has teams in Division 1, while the Northern Section does not have any teams larger than Division 3. This is due to the fact that most of CA's population is either along the coasts or in the southern 1/3 of the state.

4. To answer your question, see my answer to #3. Because of its size, the Southern Section is very competitive. A 17:30 5k for a boy would never advance as an individual. Maybe you could be the 6th or 7th man on a team that advanced. However, you might advance as an individual from a smaller division from a weaker section. The final qualifier from our section in D5 ran 18:12 on our very difficult and slow section championship course (probably worth right around 17:30 on a course like the state meet).

5. Winning state in CA is no joke either as a team or as an individual! You can add to your list of guys that have won: Meb Keflezighi (2004 olympic marathon silver), German Fernandez (the following year, he set the world junior record for indoor mile), Julia Stamps (college career cut short by horrible broken leg). Marc Davis (Olympic finals in Steeple) and many more who would go on to help college teams win national titles or qualify for U.S. Olympic trials.

To answer your bonus question: Almost everyone who wins a divisional race at state will at least begin a college running career. Some kids will have "shot their wad" in high school and never progress any further, while others who finished further down the list will progress and become elite adult level runners. For example, you can probably find Shannon Rowburry's name on that document you posted. Look in the early 2000s, Sacred Heart Cathedral HS from San Francisco. I believe her best time at state was never better than 18:30, but she went on to run sub 4:00 for 1500m.

Brenda Martinez once stated in an interview that she never made it to the state championship because div 1 was so competetive!

Truly amazing, and detailed answer. Thanks so much. You are a great example of how useful LetsRun can be!

Found Shannon Rowbury, finished 2nd in DIII (2000, 17:52) and 5th (DIII 2001, 18:50).

Couple more questions: on 3. (call this 3a). You write 5 individuals from each section advance to CIF, and the number of teams that advance varies. So what we mean here is that there is a "section" championship (and EVERY HS in this section gets to participate, right?) and then all top 5 boys and girls go to state, as well as the best "n" teams, where n is function of section. When a team qualifies, can it bring any runners they want or does it need to be the same 5-7 that qualified the team? And regarding the individuals, I suppose they get to run with or without their team, right?

4. On time, how does this Fresno, CA course compare to a road 5k (I am assuming the distance is 5k)? Would you say that a 15:00 time there is a 15:00 5k on a "fair" road course, or a bit faster? Looks like a 17:30 5k would make me a decent, but not great, high school girl which I figured is about right! Judging by the results I am going to guess than course is worth a 5k + about 30 seconds slower..

Fascinating stuff for me. I picked up running late in life at age 27. It took me 7-8 years to develop a proper aerobic base, so when I saw McFarland, I was thinking: "sure there are some talented runners, but doesn't it take a few years to develop potential for distance running?!!" I was under the assumption that the movie was correct, and that they won state the year they started the team. From your write up, it makes more sense: start the team in 1980 gets you a second "generation" of runners that start in middle school or early HS to be ready to win a state title in 1987. I am sure the names we cited or that we see in that PDF had quite a few years (at least 3-4) behind them to get to that level. Maybe closer to 7-8 in some cases i they started at age 10!

Thanks again very much.

3a. The section qualifies x number of teams. Then the top 5 individuals not on those teams also qualify. I'll post results from a CA section meet. Team qualifiers are denoted with a "t" and individual qualifiers with an "i"

http://timerhub.com/getRsResults.php?page=redcaptiming.com/2017/sjsxc/race_s07_d4vg.txt

4. Fresno is pretty fast as far as CC courses go. I would guess that 30-40 seconds is a fair conversion to a pancake flat road 5k. The results listed above are from a very slow, difficult course near Sacramento. It usually runs 35-40 seconds slower than Fresno.

Thanks for the explanation and thanks for the example! Crystal clear now --- in your example El Dorado and Placer advance which means that #41 gets to go to state via her team but not #11 as she's not in top 5 individuals. Got it!