We know that medical issues are a possibility. The point is that these collapses happen in clusters which makes the medical issue exceptionally unlikely unless these girls are passing a virus with an incredibly short incubation period during the race.
It's copycat behavior, for whatever reason.
The bottom line is that the women run hard all the way.
The men jogged along the first 8.4 km of the course. Of course they're not going to be as tired as the women. The spectators were probably not as tired either.
The same was the case with the D1 10,000 meters last spring.
For whatever reason, the women ran harder this weekend than the men, got more out of themselves, and they usually do.
Women run harder wrote:
The bottom line is that the women run hard all the way.
The men jogged along the first 8.4 km of the course. Of course they're not going to be as tired as the women. The spectators were probably not as tired either.
The same was the case with the D1 10,000 meters last spring.
For whatever reason, the women ran harder this weekend than the men, got more out of themselves, and they usually do.
Every race?
They should let the women run the same distance as the men. Equality and all that.
Neither the Baylor girl or the Minnesota girl who helped got DQ'd. You can't be DQ'd for slowing yourself down voluntarily. Check the results:
239 Kate Bucknam JR - Minnesota 22:45.3 7:58.5 ↑ 4 201
240 Madison Zimmerman FR - Baylor 22:45.4 8:04.8 ↓ 2 202
Neither scored in the top 5 for their team, and for some people, having good sportsmanship and motives is more important than winning or having a PR.
not true bro wrote:
Neither the Baylor girl or the Minnesota girl who helped got DQ'd. You can't be DQ'd for slowing yourself down voluntarily. Check the results:
239 Kate Bucknam JR - Minnesota 22:45.3 7:58.5 ↑ 4 201
240 Madison Zimmerman FR - Baylor 22:45.4 8:04.8 ↓ 2 202
Neither scored in the top 5 for their team, and for some people, having good sportsmanship and motives is more important than winning or having a PR.
I honestly dont get the majority viewpoint on this thing.
I completely believe the sportsmanship is more important than the win.
if someone needs a shoelace before the start, give him a shoelace. Give him extra spikes. give a ride to the race.
but if he is struggling at the end of a race? I don't see his difficulty as being my responsibility to help him. He's not dying or hurt - it's a race. something went wrong. I don't need to mess up my race to help. That's not sportsmanship.
If I am struggling at the end of a race, I certainly dont want anyone's help.
g[pouihb wrote:
It is entirely possible that the collapsing runner(or any collapsing runner) had some underlying medical issues. Women are more prone to anemia than men are and iron levels are even lower during certain points in the menstrual cycle.
And EDs
In the PDX wrote:
The first girl that falls down is most likely the legitimate exhausted runner (but not always), everyone else afterwards has the fall down syndrome because if the girls in front of them fell down, they have to fall down otherwise they think people will believe they didn't give it there all in the race.
Watch any HS girl's longer distance races and wait for the first girl to fall and then it starts getting hilarious and predictable.
This. There was one year a while back where damn near every single girl collapsed at the finish at NCAAs and was crying. Some girl near the front (maybe 10th or something) collapsed, so then every girl after her thought it'd be a good idea too. I remember the thread about it was titled "Oh the carnage!" or something like that. There were crying girls laying all over the place. Looked like a fvcking bomb went off or something. As a male I found it pretty hilarious.
Gary Oldman wrote:
The point is that these collapses happen in clusters ...
It's copycat behavior, for whatever reason.
Clusters do not suggest copycat behavior... randomly occurring events happen in clusters like that.
Bieber Syndrome wrote:
Women run harder wrote:The bottom line is that the women run hard all the way.
The men jogged along the first 8.4 km of the course. Of course they're not going to be as tired as the women. The spectators were probably not as tired either.
The same was the case with the D1 10,000 meters last spring.
For whatever reason, the women ran harder this weekend than the men, got more out of themselves, and they usually do.
Every race?
They should let the women run the same distance as the men. Equality and all that.
That made no sense
HardLoper wrote:
Clusters do not suggest copycat behavior...
Fantastic!
Your photo of Fräulein Ritzenhein didn't. come through. Can you repost?
26mi235 wrote:
well,. wrote:Finally someone who has something intelligent to say on this thread.
Except you (and mindset) are wrong. The reason the women collapse more is that they are tough than the guys. They push themselves harder than the guys do so that they are spent at the finish line - often completely. If they push just a bit harder their bodies punt even before the line. Remember, women do that childbirth thing remember, and guys just cannot take that level of pain but the women can (there are lots of women - Miki Gorman for one, winner of the NYC Marathon and masters record holder in the marathon and half marathon) who told me that no racing she ever did even held a candle to the pain of childbirth.
So, you don't you guys start to think about maybe the women just are a hell of a lot tougher than the guys, and thus are total wasted at the end, unlike the guys who can rarely push themselves that hard.
Now, if you can start to cite a lot of medical literature that indicates that you are correct but it is not going to happen with stuff written in the last 10, 20, 30 years (before that there were lots of things that could get through because of 'old boy bias' in the referring process (well some gets through even now, but not nearly as much and not nearly so far off).
Yeah, "the women are tougher explanation" would make more sense if all the women were collapsing not just the people who finishing 1+ min back. Or are the middle of the pack women the toughest and the top women runners are as weak as men, genius?
' chute'.
airplane XC wrote:
They all had the fish at the Banquet? The ones who didn't fall had the chicken?
Shirley..
Not Cool Bro wrote:
I have a better question. What is it with all the women helping each other cross the finish line? It's happened a bunch of times in high school races this year and now at the freaking NCAA Championships.
Here is the video of the Baylor chick struggling to make it to the finish:
http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/251721-D1-NCAA-XC-Championships-2014/video/753954-Witness-some-incredible-sportsmanshipOk, I get her teammate helping her make it to the line. They are teammates, they know each other, I hope the one stopping to help knows she's not in her team's top 5 so the scoring doesn't matter.
But then the girl from Minnesota stops to help out too. What is it with this? This is a race and presumably you should be running all out, sprinting your heart out to get to the line before your competitors. And in the midst of this you stop to help someone walk/crawl to the finish, just so they can be DQd anyway because of your outside assistance?
You aren't coming across a struggling stranger alone in the woods on your Sunday long run. This is a race! And they are 5-feet from the finish line, they'll be ok. They are not in any immediate danger and if they are, there are medical professionals feet away who are much better trained to handle the situation than you are.
Personally if it was me who collapsed I wouldn't want the help because 1) I'd get DQd and 2) I'd feel like an idiot being helped across the line in a freaking XC 6K, give me a break.
Maybe I'm just being an ass hole (and I probably am), but I can't help but roll my eyes at these "feel good sportsmanship" stories.
you are an a-hole and so am I, this is spot on.
Melard wrote:
Bieber Syndrome wrote:Every race?
They should let the women run the same distance as the men. Equality and all that.
That made no sense
Women run harder in every race, not just this particular race?
If women are tougher they should race the same distance.
If a girl helps another girl she can use that against her later.
It's pretty clear that these women are able to dig that much deeper and didn't "sacrifice the gift." Reminded me of the Boston finish where afterwards Desiree Davila looked at Adere (who was on the ground and hurting pretty badly) and thought about why she didn't feel anywhere near as bad.
You can separate talent from toughness. It's like the example of the person who slacks off and still gets A's while another busts their tail and still gets B-'s. One person is giving much closer to 100% effort.
insightlessness wrote:
Yeah, "the women are tougher explanation" would make more sense if all the women were collapsing not just the people who finishing 1+ min back. Or are the middle of the pack women the toughest and the top women runners are as weak as men, genius?
26mi235 wrote:
Gary Oldman wrote:Don't be ridiculous. None of these girls have had kids so they have nothing to compare it to..
Nobody knows if guys would be tough enough to take the pain of childbirth just like nobody knows if a woman could take a kick to the balls.
Really, you are that dense? Does someone have to explain to you how evolution works? You know, men have more testosterone than women, right? The is an evolutionary development. Better pain tolerance to get through childbirth is also an adaptation. And, if you had to go through childbirth once or twice to get that pain tolerance it would be too late.
You are not helping yourself, you appear more and more to be a dense, male chauvinist who is intent on pushing in to things that seem to be outside what he can consider.
You really should not personally attack him, it makes you look foolish. However he has a point, most of these women running will not have felt the pains of childbirth yet so I do not see how you can even conclude that that would have an effect on whether they fall at the end of the race or not. Most likely its probably just men trying to look manly and not fall over at the end, or perhaps it preference, this does not require a whole debate over sexism.