Could Symmonds beat Centro in a sit-and-kick?

While most should know by now that you kick off strength , not necessarily raw speed. Symmonds had a decent enough 1500 PR mark to be dangerous in a very slow tactical 1500.

Would he win? Maybe. Could he win? Certainly , in a one off, although Centrowitz has proven himself a far good enough tactician to beat all U.S. runners in almost any kind of race . Slow, moderate or fast.

You can't look at past 1500 results between these two guys because Symmonds has always focused his training towards the 800 and just ran the 1500 off of that training.

The second thing is that these guys know each other well, train together at times, raced, etc. Don't you think that unless Symmonds knew he cold outkick Centro in a kickers 1500 that he wouldn't have said the quote? I'm guessing he knows better than we do.

dial it up wrote:

You can't look at past 1500 results between these two guys because Symmonds has always focused his training towards the 800 and just ran the 1500 off of that training.

The second thing is that these guys know each other well, train together at times, raced, etc. Don't you think that unless Symmonds knew he cold outkick Centro in a kickers 1500 that he wouldn't have said the quote? I'm guessing he knows better than we do.

Why wouldn't he say that?

I'm saying he wouldn't have said that if he wasn't pretty confident it was true.

Symmonds may have a shot at USATF considering his 3:34 PR but he is better at the 800 at the world class level.

So would it make sense to try the 1500 over the 800 for him at Worlds?

I can understand making the switch to make it interesting after so many years in one event, though.

I predict he returns from 1500m to 800m much stronger. Silver in Rio. New 800 pr by end of 2016, break

S American record and sniffs at low 1:42.0x or 1.41.95. Abstains from sex and beer until then. Then uses his sub 1:42 ability in the bedroom, makes the cover of GQ, men's health. Gets craft brew named after him .

dial it up wrote:

I'm saying he wouldn't have said that if he wasn't pretty confident it was true.

Symmonds seems like a flake to me. he said it because their is no filter between his mouth and brain.

dial it up wrote:

I'm saying he wouldn't have said that if he wasn't pretty confident it was true.

That was clear the first time.

And I'm saying, "Why not?" (which apparently was not clear enough the first time)

WiscotodiWurld wrote:

I predict he returns from 1500m to 800m much stronger. Silver in Rio. New 800 pr by end of 2016, break

S American record and sniffs at low 1:42.0x or 1.41.95...

Symmonds is now over the hill. He will never again PR or medal in a WC or OG.

Def: Over the Hill - past one's physical peak.

For better or worse, it is almost universally true that fans refuse to recognize that their favorite athletes' best days are behind them until way, WAY after the fact.

Fast old guy wrote:

Not a chance. Symmonds already tried. Look at the Monaco 2013 1500m, both Centro and Symmonds were in that race, won by Kiprop in 3:27 and second place to Mo Farah in 3:28 to break Steve Cram's British 1500 record. Symmonds was way in the back, finished around third from last.

You call that a sit-and-kick?

Nasal503 wrote:

Loxsom has gotten a kick this year though. He won a few races & got 2nd at USA's, first year as a pro. So maybe training can develope it.

You mean that race where half the field fell down 300 meters in leaving Cas all alone to chase Solomon and hang on for second?

Y Knot wrote:

dial it up wrote:

I'm saying he wouldn't have said that if he wasn't pretty confident it was true.

That was clear the first time.

And I'm saying, "Why not?" (which apparently was not clear enough the first time)

I assumed that was obvious and didnt know why someone would take the time to ask that question. It makes him look bad. He has a brand and losing after switching events and saying you can outkick one of the best doesn't bode well for your brand.

Positive Contribution wrote:

Malmo is spot on about pure 800 guys running a 1500 aren't a threat even off a slow pace.

Those guys train to run hard from the gun and the be the one who slows down least the final 200 meters. Just because you have 45 second 400 speed doesn't mean you can "flip the switch" after already running 1200 meters.

In my early high school days I had piss poor endurance but because I was a 4/8 guy my coach would give me a hard time for not outkicking guys with slower 800 prs at the end of a cross race. I had the speed but not the strength to suddenly accelerate to it when already tired.

This is true. Several good examples on my team. Guys that would kill me in 400/800. But take that step up to 1500 and they couldn't do a thing, they were helpless. One example: 400=46.9 800=1:50.xx 1500=4:20

It's just the type of runner you are. Some are talented enough to leap from 4 to 8, some are even more talented and can leap from 4 to 8 to 15. And I don't believe training alone will get you there. Just like training alone wouldn't get me to a 46 second 400.

Symmonds did not say directly that he liked his chances against Centro. He said that if he is on Centro's shoulder with a lap to go in a sit and kick, he likes his chances. That could as well mean that he thinks that would put him in position to make the U.S. team with top three. He likes his chances to make the team, or maybe he likes his chances to beat Centro. But I think that it was the former. You don't get a lot of trash talking among American middle distance elites.

Symmonds has to be thought of as an unrealized talent at 1500m. He ran that 3:34.55 at the back of a very fast field on 800m training, and Centro has run nearly 3:31 flat in such a race (in 2014 with Manzano just under 3:31 in the race), and if Symmonds was training for the 1500m and lost some weight, he would be a force. However, Centro and Manzano on a good day are tremendous kickers in medium or slow championship races against the best in the world, so to beat both of them would be a major achievement and while possible, not to be expected currently. It would be fun to watch all of them, plus Wheating, in top form the final 300m. (Remember that Wheating, despite injuries and underperformance, has made a number of US teams).

dial it up wrote:

Y Knot wrote:

That was clear the first time.

And I'm saying, "Why not?" (which apparently was not clear enough the first time)

I assumed that was obvious and didnt know why someone would take the time to ask that question. It makes him look bad. He has a brand and losing after switching events and saying you can outkick one of the best doesn't bode well for your brand.

Wow, what a silly and ignorant thing to say. Nobody will EVER give a shit what he said before the race. They will only remember what happened IN the race.

Look around my naive little friend. Professional athletes who talk a big game before the fact impact themselves by doing so in one of two ways:

1) Enhance their own visibility/marketability

or

2) Have zero impact

Nobody ever hurts anything other than their own pride by such pre-game heroics.

I can PROMISE I have spent more time around elite athletes, so naive might be a bit of a reach. I can also promise that athletes are familiar with who said what.

I'm saying that to get to a 1500 championship final he will have to get through rounds, each progressively harder, and then will have to run a final where he MAYBE gets the chance to "sit and kick," and to win that final he will have to contend with men who are stronger and more talented than Centro.

I interpret his statement as an assertion that he could make the US team by hanging on Centro's shoulder and kicking, not that he will become a world beater by doing so.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Sure, not everyone who runs a fast 400 will run a fast mile. But almost everyone who runs a fast mile will run at least a fast 800 if not a fast 400. Particularly the best kickers: Ngeny, 1:44. Morceli, 1:44. Cram, 1:42. Aouita, 1:43. Souleiman, 1:43. Certainly El G would have been 1:44 or better. Centrowitz is never gonna get below 3:30, nor outkick the likes of Kiprop, Kiplagat, Souleiman or Makhloufi, until he gets the speed. The blazing fast rip-snorting speed. Symmonds obviously can't do that either but he could have if he'd moved up years ago, because he had the speed.

That is just circular logic. You're just assuming the guys with good 800 PBs are good kickers, and the other good kickers should have good 800 PBs. Bernard Lagat and El Guerrouj are both good at kicking but I don't see proof either would be good at 800. Nick Willis said somewhere he couldn't even break 50 in a 400 from blocks.

I like Jordan McNamara's chances in the 1500, if he stays healthy. Anyone moving to the 1500 will also have to contend with him.

I'm not putting down Symmonds, I have a lot of respect for athletes who get the most out of their abilities, and in that regard he is an outstanding athlete. But I think he should stick with the 800. Who knows, maybe by altering his training for the 1500 he could end up becoming a better runner at both distances, anything is possible. But my instinct about his ability/traits is: too much meso, not enough ecto; leg to upper body ratio could be better; likely bad diet; running form too stiff.