Letsrun, do we have another 'Caster Semenya situation' in girls 800 at 2014 World Juniors?

sad day for the site wrote:

Did you point her to this revolting thread that rojo is participating in? (While deleting threads with legitimate questions on doping?)

rojo wrote:

I'm not sure what is 'revolting' about this thread.

rojo wrote:

I have heavily moderated this thread and deleted probably 30 offensive/off topic posts in it.

Um...sounds like you're reading the same revolting posts then. Thanks for cleaning it up.

rojo wrote:

It's an unfortunate aspect that arises every so often with women's athletics.

Huh? By every so often you mean once, right?

rojo wrote:

Wambui’s appearance and rapid improvement reminds some of Caster Semenya in 2009.

You see what you did there?

Look, nobody is saying this isn't a big deal and an important issue. How the site carries it is a real problem, though. I support the forum for a discussion like this, but if you can't acknowledge the sheer vile character of some of what's been on this thread, I guess you're beyond convincing. Glad you moderated it. I hope you never have hundreds of people rudely speculating and commenting about your health and personal details online.

marathon man 21 wrote:

Internal testes (see Caster Semenya)

You have a source for that?

Half of you are discussing the wrong person.

The person people are talking about is the World Junior Champ Mararet Wambui. Her first round interview is still up on the web.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ-qn7Jjxh0

This is a serious discussion that should be allowed to be discussed. Just because some people are immature about it does not mean it is not worthy of discussion.

The issues around Caster Semenya were legitimate and we believe people should be allowed to discuss whether we have a similar situation here. This isn't just some random junior runner. She is the world junior champion.

I'm glad to see some transgender people actually posting on this thread to.

VPNGuy wrote:

In the third heat of the 800m Raevyn Rogers was running in the middle/outside of lane 1 near the end of the first lap. Imali, another Kenyan, was coming up on the inside of lane 1 as Rogers, still leading, was moving slightly toward the middle/inside of the lane. Imali stomped on the back of Rogers foot or ankle. This cost Rogers the qualifying, although she bravely finished the race. Imali was the third qualifier in the heat.

No DQ or protest as far as I could tell, but it clearly cost Rogers her qualifying spot.

Africans never get DQ'd for this type of thing whether intentional or not - UNLESS - they foul another third world runner. If the runner is from the US or Europe or Japan what have you, the Africans have nothing to worry about.

For the record tgirl is Joanna Harper, a transgender athlete, who used to compete as a male, but now as a woman.

wejo wrote:

For the record tgirl is Joanna Harper, a transgender athlete, who used to compete as a male, but now as a woman.

Also, for the record, being transgender and being intersex are two very different things.

But, it is true, that as a transgender athlete, I have an understanding of the difficulties involved for anyone exists outside of the usual boundary of the gender binary.

Also I would say that while there have been some offensive posts in this thread, there has been a lot useful discussion too.

And this is, by no means an isolated incident. The IAAF, has looked at several incidents such as this one over the years. Most of the time, any investigation is kept quiet.

Please try to show respect for Margaret Wambui. If she is intersex, then this is how she was born. It is not cheating to compete with the gifts you were given. At the same time, the IAAF has created rules and processes in order to try to maintain, as best it can, a level playing field for women athletes. They will do their best to deal with this situation.

sad level of discussion wrote:

Huh? By every so often you mean once, right?

Not at all. Semenya is one. The Indian girl last week is another. Normally these issues are taken care of before they get to this level and we're hoping everything is correct here.

sad level of discussion wrote:

If you can't acknowledge the sheer vile character of some of what's been on this thread, I guess you're beyond convincing. Glad you moderated it. I hope you never have hundreds of people rudely speculating and commenting about your health and personal details online.

We can acknowledge it. That's why we delete that. Thanks for your understanding.

Many think it would be nice if everything in the world was black/white or in this case male/female but the world is more nuanced than that.

Rojo, whatever you do, don't listen to this idiot.Registration won't change a thing. People can set up multiple email accounts for multiple registration names. People can post from multiple IP addresses (different laptop, desktop, tablet, smart phone, work computers, etc...If anything, this board is over moderated.

No, ignore this fool, rojo.

Very few people would go the trouble of setting up multiple emails for the purpose of spamming lr.

People should be required to register with some email, just a disposable one, one they put fake info in for if they want, whatever. Just so you can delete people that cause too much trouble. Sure they can get another disposable email, re register, etc, but it's a pain, and only really dedicated trolls are going to go to that trouble. Most will not, they will stop at ridiculous and juvenile rather than continue to completely abhorrent.

Note, none of that requires sacrificing anonymity.

rodger wrote:

Very few people would go the trouble of setting up multiple emails for the purpose of spamming lr.

People should be required to register with some email, just a disposable one, one they put fake info in for if they want, whatever. Just so you can delete people that cause too much trouble. Sure they can get another disposable email, re register, etc, but it's a pain, and only really dedicated trolls are going to go to that trouble. Most will not, they will stop at ridiculous and juvenile rather than continue to completely abhorrent.

Note, none of that requires sacrificing anonymity.

Beautiful.

Tgirl wrote:

Please try to show respect for Margaret Wambui. If she is intersex, then this is how she was born. It is not cheating to compete with the gifts you were given. At the same time, the IAAF has created rules and processes in order to try to maintain, as best it can, a level playing field for women athletes. They will do their best to deal with this situation.

The IAAF? No they won't.

They'll sooner ruin women's athletics than appear to be non-politically correct against these athletes.

It's worrying that eventually that people who identify as female would be allowed to compete as women, despite being physiologically men.

rojo wrote:

The Indian girl last week is another. Normally these issues are taken care of before they get to this level and we're hoping everything is correct here.

Rojo, I started a thread questioning the gender of the winner from the girls' 3000 at world junior championships: "Letsrun, do we have another 'Caster Semenya situation' in girls 3000 at 2014 World Juniors?"

There was not a single word in that thread that wasn't said in this thread, too.

Why are you comfortable with a thread questioning the gender of a young African woman but not a young caucasian woman? Do you not have the courage of your convictions to apply them consistently?

Please give a direct answer rather than taking the cowards' route and deleting this post.

cowardly site or cowardly mods wrote:

Rojo, I started a thread questioning the gender of the winner from the girls' 3000 at world junior championships: "Letsrun, do we have another 'Caster Semenya situation' in girls 3000 at 2014 World Juniors?"

There was not a single word in that thread that wasn't said in this thread, too.

Why are you comfortable with a thread questioning the gender of a young African woman but not a young caucasian woman? Do you not have the courage of your convictions to apply them consistently?

Please give a direct answer rather than taking the cowards' route and deleting this post.

I didn't delete it. I'm sure a moderator did because they knew your post was obviously a troll. Trolls get axed.

If your post is legitimate, post it again, send me the URL and i'll email the main volunteer moderator and night and tell him not to delete it.

rojo wrote:

I didn't delete it. I'm sure a moderator did because they knew your post was obviously a troll. Trolls get axed.

If your post is legitimate, post it again, send me the URL and i'll email the main volunteer moderator and night and tell him not to delete it.

robertjohnson@letsrun.com

"Obviously a troll. Trolls get axed."

LOL. Like the Centro thread? Yeah, that's right. Letsrun hates trolls.

So, let me get this straight. A thread questioning the gender of a young African woman is legitimate and important for the sport. While a thread questioning the gender of a young caucasian woman, using the exact same wording is "obviously a troll"?

That is about as much of a double standard as you can have. And, um...kind of racist.

If you want to restore the thread questioning the 3000 winner's gender, which used the exact same wording as the thread questioning the 800 winner's gender, you have the information to do so. I doubt you will.

Dude, I already have 4 email addresses. I am sure I am not the only one. And people aren't going to spam the site. Trolling is not spamming. Trolls already go through aot of trouble. Having to register multiple names isn't going to stop this.

do it wrote:

rodger wrote:

Very few people would go the trouble of setting up multiple emails for the purpose of spamming lr.

People should be required to register with some email, just a disposable one, one they put fake info in for if they want, whatever. Just so you can delete people that cause too much trouble. Sure they can get another disposable email, re register, etc, but it's a pain, and only really dedicated trolls are going to go to that trouble. Most will not, they will stop at ridiculous and juvenile rather than continue to completely abhorrent.

Note, none of that requires sacrificing anonymity.

Beautiful.

cowardly site or cowardly mods wrote:

[quote]rojo wrote:

Rojo, I started a thread questioning the gender of the winner from the girls' 3000 at world junior championships: "Letsrun, do we have another 'Caster Semenya situation' in girls 3000 at 2014 World Juniors?"

There was not a single word in that thread that wasn't said in this thread, too.

Why are you comfortable with a thread questioning the gender of a young African woman but not a young caucasian woman? Do you not have the courage of your convictions to apply them consistently?

Please give a direct answer rather than taking the cowards' route and deleting this post.

There have been thousands of posts about Mary Cain on the letsrun message board since she first gained attention. Not a single one has questioned her gender. The first mention of the junior 800 winner on these boards was questioning her gender. They are in no way comparable. You made something up to make some kind of point.

dude, I get you. But open your eyes.

your nihilism and pure theory aren't really useful paths to truth

strawmen wrote:

There have been thousands of posts about Mary Cain on the letsrun message board since she first gained attention. Not a single one has questioned her gender. The first mention of the junior 800 winner on these boards was questioning her gender. They are in no way comparable. You made something up to make some kind of point.

I guess you don't even see the irony of your post:

You argue that posters' ignorance of this runner justifies hypocritical treatment of her on the boards.

You are just piling on how pathetic this is. You know that, right?

bean counters wrote:

dude, I get you. But open your eyes.

your nihilism and pure theory aren't really useful paths to truth

Please tell me a more useful path to the truth than a controlled experiment.